Here's the problem I have with you guys

J

jonbig04

Its not that 80% of these threads are about some stupid obama or mccain relationship conspiracy.

Its not that some of you say "there's no such thing as being too right (in the partisan sense)".

Its not that some of you are too liberal.

I don't like any of those things. But whats stupid is that you ALL honestly think that this country needs the same policies and leadership all the time. You dont look at our ever changing and dynamic country and say "what policies would be best for our country now at this moment in time"? You vote one way all the time period. Election after election. Look at our economy and country now, as opposed to 8 years ago. Its different in every way...foreign policy and economically. Yet I bet 95% of you will vote now the same way you voted then.

This isnt a democrat or republican thing, its about your lack of ability to think critically. Why is america like this? We've had great leaders in republicans (lincoln, reagan) and democrats (kennedy, FDR). There have been times when regulation would have stifled the growth and ingenuity of our markets, and there are times when regulation is desperately needed (now). Yet you people vote one way every single time and then you attempt to defend your side without even knowing the issues. This is why America is in trouble, because sheep stick to their ideals and don't care about the issues as long as they get their action movies and monday night football. Because you people are too lazy to find out whats going on and make an active informed decision (even though information is easily obtained) and then hold your leader accountable.

As a result we have ridiculously incompetent leaders because no one cares enough to make them accountable. Try looking at our current situation, then making a decision. If we still disagree then thats ok, agree to disagree...but I've yet to see anybody at that point. Most of you are just defending your interminable, immovable ideals no matter what situation our country is in. Dumb.
 
Quote from jonbig04:

Its not that 80% of these threads are about some stupid obama or mccain relationship conspiracy.

Its not that some of you say "there's no such thing as being too right (in the partisan sense)".

Its not that some of you are too liberal.

I don't like any of those things. But whats stupid is that you ALL honestly think that this country needs the same policies and leadership all the time. You dont look at our ever changing and dynamic country and say "what policies would be best for our country now at this moment in time"? You vote one way all the time period. Election after election. Look at our economy and country now, as opposed to 8 years ago. Its different in every way...foreign policy and economically. Yet I bet 95% of you will vote now the same way you voted then.

This isnt a democrat or republican thing, its about your lack of ability to think critically. Why is america like this? We've had great leaders in republicans (lincoln, reagan) and democrats (kennedy, FDR). There have been times when regulation would have stifled the growth and ingenuity of our markets, and there are times when regulation is desperately needed (now). Yet you people vote one way every single time and then you attempt to defend your side without even knowing the issues. This is why America is in trouble, because sheep stick to their ideals and don't care about the issues as long as they get their action movies and monday night football. Because you people are too lazy to find out whats going on and make an active informed decision (even though information is easily obtained) and then hold your leader accountable.

As a result we have ridiculously incompetent leaders because no one cares enough to make them accountable. Try looking at our current situation, then making a decision. If we still disagree then thats ok, agree to disagree...but I've yet to see anybody at that point. Most of you are just defending your interminable, immovable ideals no matter what situation our country is in. Dumb.
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Are you serious??

Or are you just fucking around?
 
Well, to be the devils advocate there are a large amount of people that are one issue voters. It's ususally either personal beliefs or money such as abortion, gay marriage, capital gains tax, healthcare and ect. Jon you really are a humanistand idealist. You have to understand that people are fundamentally selfish and usually vote for their best interests at the time. Also the average person conservative or liberal is not willing to be an accountant of the country and literally sort out every single issue and than decipher which is the best answer with no bias. They take things for granted and actually expect politicians to do that.


The only other thing is about the 8 year thing. I called you an Idealist because you simply and not so logically claimed that things were different 8 years ago and now a change needs to be in order. What i did not hear from you is the rough percentage of issues that are on the right track and the ones on the wrong track. You might say all of them are on the wrong track or a good amount of them are. After you figure which ones are on the wrong track you understand which ones are the most important. Of course among recent polls the economy is the most important issue. After finding the importance of the issues you must decide who was responsible for the issue heading in the wrong direction. This would be an example of thinking critically. So the question- Who is most responsible for the wrong track of the economy and who has the best ability of fixing it? Is Clinton responsible because he signed a deregulation bill? Is the republican congress responsible for the first 5-6 years? Is the democratic congress responsible for the last 2 years? Is Bush responsible? Are the financial companies responsible? Is the IQ of people getting loans they can't pay back responsible? Is the idea of the American dream and owning a house responsible? Is it the lack of an education system for lenders and receivers?

What you are doing is advocating a difference in leadership. You are doing this because you hold certain beliefs which cause you to decide who is the one responsible. Clearly sense you want a change in leadership you are putting the opposite party responsible. You are thus putting yourself into the category that you so disgustingly despised. All your article does is prove the fact that you have a complete lack critical thinking skills because if you did you would realize that people believe in different right answers and there is no universal right answer. Thinking people are ignorant with different views only makes yourself ignorant.

As you can or can't see there really is no right answer so simply claiming to vote the opposite of the last party is as bad as simply voting for the same party over and over again.
 
Quote from jonbig04:

Its not that 80% of these threads are about some stupid obama or mccain relationship conspiracy.

Its not that some of you say "there's no such thing as being too right (in the partisan sense)".

Its not that some of you are too liberal.

I don't like any of those things. But whats stupid is that you ALL honestly think that this country needs the same policies and leadership all the time. You dont look at our ever changing and dynamic country and say "what policies would be best for our country now at this moment in time"? You vote one way all the time period. Election after election. Look at our economy and country now, as opposed to 8 years ago. Its different in every way...foreign policy and economically. Yet I bet 95% of you will vote now the same way you voted then.

This isnt a democrat or republican thing, its about your lack of ability to think critically. Why is america like this? We've had great leaders in republicans (lincoln, reagan) and democrats (kennedy, FDR). There have been times when regulation would have stifled the growth and ingenuity of our markets, and there are times when regulation is desperately needed (now). Yet you people vote one way every single time and then you attempt to defend your side without even knowing the issues. This is why America is in trouble, because sheep stick to their ideals and don't care about the issues as long as they get their action movies and monday night football. Because you people are too lazy to find out whats going on and make an active informed decision (even though information is easily obtained) and then hold your leader accountable.

As a result we have ridiculously incompetent leaders because no one cares enough to make them accountable. Try looking at our current situation, then making a decision. If we still disagree then thats ok, agree to disagree...but I've yet to see anybody at that point. Most of you are just defending your interminable, immovable ideals no matter what situation our country is in. Dumb.
More...
"its about your lack of ability to think critically."

someone who believes in talking snakes is lecturing the rest of us because we dont think critically. that is funny.
http://www.elitetrader.com/vb/showthread.php?s=&postid=2102809#post2102809
 
Quote from NeoRio1:

Well, to be the devils advocate there are a large amount of people that are one issue voters. It's ususally either personal beliefs or money such as abortion, gay marriage, capital gains tax, healthcare and ect. Jon you really are a humanistand idealist. You have to understand that people are fundamentally selfish and usually vote for their best interests at the time. Also the average person conservative or liberal is not willing to be an accountant of the country and literally sort out every single issue and than decipher which is the best answer with no bias. They take things for granted and actually expect politicians to do that.

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Close, but not 100% correct.

I had originally intended to vote for McCain based on his statements about extending the Bush tax cuts. As a small trader, or a piker if you will, I would have only saved tens, maybe hundreds of dollars, but that was what was important to me. Even though I would rather sit down to lunch with Barack Obama than John McCain, McCain was goign to get my vote.

However, when California's prop 8 was making national headlines, (prop 8 would amend California's constitution in a way that would ban same sex marriage), McCain said that he supports it. So I changed my mind and decided I will vote for Obama. Now, if I am reading Barack Obama's statements correctly, I will still get a tax break although I'm not sure how, so maybe my tax concerns were a moot point.

So, in a way you are indeed correct, I am casting my vote based on the single issue of same sex marriage. Neither of them are proponents, but at least Barack Obama is not an opponent.

I still reserve the right to vote for none of the above. However, I won't waste it by writing in some third party crank candidate.

Man, I sure would like to have a candidate I can get behind and vote for. I'm tired of voting for the purpose of wanting a candidate to lose. Some democracy.
 
Quote from NeoRio1:

Well, to be the devils advocate there are a large amount of people that are one issue voters. It's ususally either personal beliefs or money such as abortion, gay marriage, capital gains tax, healthcare and ect. Jon you really are a humanistand idealist. You have to understand that people are fundamentally selfish and usually vote for their best interests at the time.


Maybe we shouldn't consider ONLY what affects us most? Maybe we should "ask not what our country can do for us etc"? You could be right, I am an idealist. Maybe I tapped into the fundamental problem with our country today. Can it be changed?



Also the average person conservative or liberal is not willing to be an accountant of the country and literally sort out every single issue and than decipher which is the best answer with no bias. They take things for granted and actually expect politicians to do that.

True, but with the internet it takes very little time and energy. If you had to guess would you say the average person does more or less than 2 hours of research per 4 year presidential election? I would say way less. The politicians obviously aren't doing it, so we have to step up.



The only other thing is about the 8 year thing. I called you an Idealist because you simply and not so logically claimed that things were different 8 years ago and now a change needs to be in order.

I never said I change was in order. It could be though :)


What i did not hear from you is the rough percentage of issues that are on the right track and the ones on the wrong track. You might say all of them are on the wrong track or a good amount of them are. After you figure which ones are on the wrong track you understand which ones are the most important. Of course among recent polls the economy is the most important issue. After finding the importance of the issues you must decide who was responsible for the issue heading in the wrong direction. This would be an example of thinking critically.

You are absolutely right. However I have done that research and I have formed my opinions, but I didn't want to make this thread about that.



What you are doing is advocating a difference in leadership. You are doing this because you hold certain beliefs which cause you to decide who is the one responsible.

Wrong. What I and advocating is thinking critically and deciding. Belief has nothing to do with it. And its not one "side" I hold responsible. In fact I don't hold anyone responsible. I believe what happened was bound to happen, however what I have figured out is what we need right now and I will vote for the side most likely to provide that.


Clearly sense you want a change in leadership you are putting the opposite party responsible. You are thus putting yourself into the category that you so disgustingly despised.

Once again, wrong...look above.


All your article does is prove the fact that you have a complete lack critical thinking skills because if you did you would realize that people believe in different right answers and there is no universal right answer.

Wrong again, there is no universal right answer ALL THE TIME. There IS a right answer for right now.

Thinking people are ignorant with different views only makes yourself ignorant.

You clearly know who I am voting for and don't like it. You are typifying what I described. Where do you even get that I think people who disagree with me are ignorant? Did you just make that up? I said in my OP, I will agree to disagree if we both come to different though rational conclusions based on the research that we've done.

As you can or can't see there really is no right answer so simply claiming to vote the opposite of the last party is as bad as simply voting for the same party over and over again.

Either you really have it in me, or you simply can't read. I never said to simply vote for the opposite party. You are right voting for the opposite party simply because you didnt like the last one makes no sense either, however I don't know anything like that so I didnt include them in my OP. However I certainly never advocated doing that as you seem to think I did.
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Quote from vhehn:

"its about your lack of ability to think critically."

someone who believes in talking snakes is lecturing the rest of us because we dont think critically. that is funny.
http://www.elitetrader.com/vb/showthread.php?s=&postid=2102809#post2102809
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First of all vhehn, I would think you learned you lesson the last time you argued with me. Secondly if you even read that thread you would know that I am unsure WHAT I believe, so it interesting that you could know, when I don't.
 
Quote from jonbig04:

Quote from NeoRio1:

Well, to be the devils advocate there are a large amount of people that are one issue voters. It's ususally either personal beliefs or money such as abortion, gay marriage, capital gains tax, healthcare and ect. Jon you really are a humanistand idealist. You have to understand that people are fundamentally selfish and usually vote for their best interests at the time.


Maybe we shouldn't consider ONLY what affects us most? Maybe we should "ask not what our country can do for us etc"? You could be right, I am an idealist. Maybe I tapped into the fundamental problem with our country today. Can it be changed?



Also the average person conservative or liberal is not willing to be an accountant of the country and literally sort out every single issue and than decipher which is the best answer with no bias. They take things for granted and actually expect politicians to do that.

True, but with the internet it takes very little time and energy. If you had to guess would you say the average person does more or less than 2 hours of research per 4 year presidential election? I would say way less. The politicians obviously aren't doing it, so we have to step up.



The only other thing is about the 8 year thing. I called you an Idealist because you simply and not so logically claimed that things were different 8 years ago and now a change needs to be in order.

I never said I change was in order. It could be though :)


What i did not hear from you is the rough percentage of issues that are on the right track and the ones on the wrong track. You might say all of them are on the wrong track or a good amount of them are. After you figure which ones are on the wrong track you understand which ones are the most important. Of course among recent polls the economy is the most important issue. After finding the importance of the issues you must decide who was responsible for the issue heading in the wrong direction. This would be an example of thinking critically.

You are absolutely right. However I have done that research and I have formed my opinions, but I didn't want to make this thread about that.



What you are doing is advocating a difference in leadership. You are doing this because you hold certain beliefs which cause you to decide who is the one responsible.

Wrong. What I and advocating is thinking critically and deciding. Belief has nothing to do with it. And its not one "side" I hold responsible. In fact I don't hold anyone responsible. I believe what happened was bound to happen, however what I have figured out is what we need right now and I will vote for the side most likely to provide that.


Clearly sense you want a change in leadership you are putting the opposite party responsible. You are thus putting yourself into the category that you so disgustingly despised.

Once again, wrong...look above.


All your article does is prove the fact that you have a complete lack critical thinking skills because if you did you would realize that people believe in different right answers and there is no universal right answer.

Wrong again, there is no universal right answer ALL THE TIME. There IS a right answer for right now.

Thinking people are ignorant with different views only makes yourself ignorant.

You clearly know who I am voting for and don't like it. You are typifying what I described. Where do you even get that I think people who disagree with me are ignorant? Did you just make that up? I said in my OP, I will agree to disagree if we both come to different though rational conclusions based on the research that we've done.

As you can or can't see there really is no right answer so simply claiming to vote the opposite of the last party is as bad as simply voting for the same party over and over again.

Either you really have it in me, or you simply can't read. I never said to simply vote for the opposite party. You are right voting for the opposite party simply because you didnt like the last one makes no sense either, however I don't know anything like that so I didnt include them in my OP. However I certainly never advocated doing that as you seem to think I did.
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I am going to try to be nice. First of all i have a major problem when you say that the present state of the economy was bound to happen. That's like saying someone who got killed in a car accident was bound to die that way. Also if you say it was bound to happen then why weren't you raising a red flag 1, 2, 5 or 10 years ago about the economy. That comment alone really depletes your argument.

Secondly, you say you do not hold anyone responsible. I said I will try to be nice but in order to fix a problem my friend you must find the cause that is responsible for the problem. You cannot just go about life knowing how to fix things without finding the cause that is RESPONSIBLE in the first place. If a person went to the doctor because they were getting chest pain would the doctor instantly rush to get them something that would decrease the pain or would he investigate the root of the cause so he could more precisely fix the problem.

Jonbig it is nice that you advocate the decreasing of economic pain. The only problem is that your sensitivity towards this pain is so great that you cannot make a realistic decision. You are like the fake doctor seeing a cure and doing his best to cure the patient. I admire you for using the best of your abilities but your ability to think critically is severely limited.
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Quote from NeoRio1:

I am going to try to be nice. First of all i have a major problem when you say that the present state of the economy was bound to happen. That's like saying someone who got killed in a car accident was bound to die that way. Also if you say it was bound to happen then why weren't you raising a red flag 1, 2, 5 or 10 years ago about the economy. That comment alone really depletes your argument.

Its obvious we are going to have to get political. It was bound to happen because the same emotion that makes us the most successful, innovative and greatest country in the world is the same thing that leads to the inevitability of corporate and widespread corruption: greed. In studying history I believe its fairly cyclical, and I've said this before (note you can exchange company for industry or whatever you see fit):

1. Wall street (and other businesses) become increasingly innovative in finding ways to generate ever more profits.

2. Inevitable loopholes in the current regulation are exploited and profits soar.

3. Bottom falls out and company is exposed for what it is, likely affecting the whole economy in the process.

4. New regulations are employed to keep this from happening again.

1. Wall street (and other businesses) become increasingly innovative in finding ways to generate ever more profits.

Oh and 10 years ago I was 10 years old, maybe I was due a little slack then.


Secondly, you say you do not hold anyone responsible. I said I will try to be nice but in order to fix a problem my friend you must find the cause that is responsible for the problem.

The cause is the double edged sword of greed as I explained above. This is evident in all humans and is essential in our country moving forward' "Greed clarifies, cuts through, and captures". We all know what thats from. However greed also leads to the crashing of entire industries.

You cannot just go about life knowing how to fix things without finding the cause that is RESPONSIBLE in the first place. If a person went to the doctor because they were getting chest pain would the doctor instantly rush to get them something that would decrease the pain or would he investigate the root of the cause so he could more precisely fix the problem.

Think I covered that.

Jonbig it is nice that you advocate the decreasing of economic pain. The only problem is that your sensitivity towards this pain is so great that you cannot make a realistic decision.

You seem not to realize that I simply didn't (and havent) gone into detail, but that doesnt mean i can't and haven't many many times in this section. You assumed simply because I didn't mention by deductions that they do not exists, and thats far from the truth.


You are like the fake doctor seeing a cure and doing his best to cure the patient. I admire you for using the best of your abilities but your ability to think critically is severely limited.

Once again you made quite a few assumptions from my post that, surprise! Weren't accurate.
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