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Here's something for the limp wristed gun control crowd
- Thread starter stock777
- Start date
Following the Port Arthur massacre (the all time world record of 35 deaths), Australia introduced very strict gun control laws. The results speak for themselves:
"The most recent reliable figures, for 2002-03, show there were 0.27 firearm-related homicides per 100,000 Australians - about one-fifteenth of the US rate."
"The risk of dying by gunshot halved over the past 10 years," said Philip Alpers, adjunct associate professor at the University of Sydney's School of Public Health.
Earlier this month, the Australian Institute of Criminology reported the rate of gun theft had dropped by 70 per cent since stricter gun laws were introduced."
http://www.smh.com.au/news/national/gun-laws-credited-as-lifesavers/2007/04/22/1177180487704.html
In other words, the probability of dying by gunshot homicide in Australia is less than 7% of that in the US. A compelling figure.
"The most recent reliable figures, for 2002-03, show there were 0.27 firearm-related homicides per 100,000 Australians - about one-fifteenth of the US rate."
"The risk of dying by gunshot halved over the past 10 years," said Philip Alpers, adjunct associate professor at the University of Sydney's School of Public Health.
Earlier this month, the Australian Institute of Criminology reported the rate of gun theft had dropped by 70 per cent since stricter gun laws were introduced."
http://www.smh.com.au/news/national/gun-laws-credited-as-lifesavers/2007/04/22/1177180487704.html
In other words, the probability of dying by gunshot homicide in Australia is less than 7% of that in the US. A compelling figure.
Yes. I asked in another thread why gun crime rates per capita in countries with gun control laws were a fraction of what they are in the US. A couple of people (Pabst, one other) suggested that it's because there are a lot black people living in the US.Quote from dcraig:
In other words, the probability of dying by gunshot homicide in Australia is less than 7% of that in the US. A compelling figure.
Pabst said that if you take out gun crime by black people, you get per capita numbers similar to Canada! I have my doubts about that.
Quote from traderNik:
Yes. I asked in another thread why gun crime rates per capita in countries with gun control laws were a fraction of what they are in the US. A couple of people (Pabst, one other) suggested that it's because there are a lot black people living in the US.
Pabst said that if you take out gun crime by black people, you get per capita numbers similar to Canada! I have my doubts about that.
See this web page by U.S. Department of Justice, Bureau of Justice Statistics
http://www.ojp.usdoj.gov/bjs/homicide/race.htm
In 2004, offending rates for blacks were 7 times higher than the rates for whites.
Quote from atozcom:
See this web page by U.S. Department of Justice, Bureau of Justice Statistics
http://www.ojp.usdoj.gov/bjs/homicide/race.htm
In 2004, offending rates for blacks were 7 times higher than the rates for whites.
Actually, that page shows that rates for all homicide types were 7 times higher for blacks than for whites (and there is no doubt that that is a relevant statistic).
However... it seems to show that from 1974 - 2004, racial differences in gun homicides were as follows
Gun homicide offenders were
42.0% white
56.2% black
1.7% other
Total US gun homicides in 2004 were 10,564
http://www.ojp.usdoj.gov/bjs/homicide/tables/weaponstab.htm
The population of the US in 2004 was 293,027,571
http://www.google.ca/search?hl=en&c...hs=371&q=us+population+2004&btnG=Search&meta=
Therefore the gun homicide rate in the US in 2004 seems to be about 9.38/100,000
This would indicate that if you look at gun homicide in particular, the number are nowhere near 7 times as high. Indeed, the chart shows that the gap between whites and blacks as offenders in gun homicide has narrowed significantly in the past 12 years, so these numbers are skewed, with the actual ratio in recent years being even lower. Someone can correct me if this interpretation is wrong.
It is encouraging to see that gun homicide rates for blacks have plummeted since the 1990s. A gun control advocate would probably claim that these drops were due in part to the background check and waiting period laws which make it tougher for criminals to simply walk into a gun store, purchase a gun and start shooting.
Quote from traderNik:
Actually, that page shows that rates for all homicide types were 7 times higher for blacks than for whites (and there is no doubt that that is a relevant statistic).
However... it seems to show that from 1974 - 2004, racial differences in gun homicides were as follows
Gun homicide offenders were
42.0% white
56.2% black
1.7% other
Total US gun homicides in 2004 were 10,564
http://www.ojp.usdoj.gov/bjs/homicide/tables/weaponstab.htm
The population of the US in 2004 was 293,027,571
http://www.google.ca/search?hl=en&c...hs=371&q=us+population+2004&btnG=Search&meta=
Therefore the gun homicide rate in the US in 2004 seems to be about 9.38/100,000
This would indicate that if you look at gun homicide in particular, the number are nowhere near 7 times as high. Indeed, the chart shows that the gap between whites and blacks as offenders in gun homicide has narrowed significantly in the past 12 years, so these numbers are skewed, with the actual ratio in recent years being even lower. Someone can correct me if this interpretation is wrong.
It is encouraging to see that gun homicide rates for blacks have plummeted since the 1990s. A gun control advocate would probably claim that these drops were due in part to the background check and waiting period laws which make it tougher for criminals to simply walk into a gun store, purchase a gun and start shooting.
Jeez Nik, talk about drawing me in to this discussion, lol.
Where to start. First off, on what basis are you disputing the DOJ's 7x statistic?
Secondly I'd argue the figure is a hell of a lot higher than 7x. Why? We only know the race of an offender if one is actually charged with a crime. Homicide clearance rates in the U.S. are presently on all time lows. (dramatically so) Chicago's clearance rate is now 36% whereas in the 1960's it was about double that percentage.
The vast majority of "unsolved" murders involve black victims. Since the DOJ claims that 86% of white victims were killed by whites and 94% of black victims were killed by blacks one can extrapolate from the sample of cleared cases that better than 9 out of 10 uncleared black homicide cases were committed by black murderers. Hence the number of black perps is very understated.
Secondly the FBI has done a horseshit job of racially classifying Mexicans. The category of "other" WAY understates their criminal contribution in America. By and large Mexicans get classified as "white" in the reported stats. Certainly they're whiter than not but it's certainly inaccurate to count Cho as "other" because he's Asian but to count Pedro the Aztec as "white."
Clearly you're correct about your Twain reference. I eschew stats as a measure of a players effectiveness in team sports and I don't use "indicators" in trading. However in the 3 cities I've lived (Chicago, NYC and Miami) I'd ballpark black murder rates to be 20 times the rate of whites.
Quote from traderNik:
It is encouraging to see that gun homicide rates for blacks have plummeted since the 1990s. A gun control advocate would probably claim that these drops were due in part to the background check and waiting period laws which make it tougher for criminals to simply walk into a gun store, purchase a gun and start shooting.
Black criminals don't exactly "walk into a gun store" and "purchase a gun. Gun toting American Blacks traffic in stolen firearms.
Black homicides have decreases as the crack trade (and usage) have diminished.
The simple minded Mr. Simpleton would never understand gun control only make law abiding citizens sitting ducks. Gun control have no effect on criminal or crazy people. They don't walk into gun store to buy a gun.
Any criminal who have half a brain would get the gun from illegal channel. Who would use a registered fire arm to commit a crime? Only stupid criminals would do that.
Are we discounting or ignoring the law abiding citizens using fire arms to stop or prevent a crime, to protect, or scare away criminals?
Gun control make sure criminals to have the upper hand.
Gun control make sure the law abiding citizens become victims.
Any criminal who have half a brain would get the gun from illegal channel. Who would use a registered fire arm to commit a crime? Only stupid criminals would do that.
Are we discounting or ignoring the law abiding citizens using fire arms to stop or prevent a crime, to protect, or scare away criminals?
Gun control make sure criminals to have the upper hand.
Gun control make sure the law abiding citizens become victims.
Gotta love those stats.
Do firearm death stats include police shootings?
Do these stats reflect how many of the crims are actually caught?
Doesnt anyone think, maybe thats the real problem?
Here's some fun quotes, for your consideration.
http://www.ssaa.org.au/newssaa/political archive/quotations/quoteozcrime.htm
Do firearm death stats include police shootings?
Do these stats reflect how many of the crims are actually caught?
Doesnt anyone think, maybe thats the real problem?
Here's some fun quotes, for your consideration.
http://www.ssaa.org.au/newssaa/political archive/quotations/quoteozcrime.htm
Quote from acronym:
Gotta love those stats.
Do firearm death stats include police shootings?
Do these stats reflect how many of the crims are actually caught?
Doesnt anyone think, maybe thats the real problem?
Here's some fun quotes, for your consideration.
http://www.ssaa.org.au/newssaa/political archive/quotations/quoteozcrime.htm
The most recent study (reported in SMH yesterday) finds gun controls have cut the number of firearms related deaths in Australia since Port Arthur by half. Quotes on some shooters association web site don't cut it.