Herbalife (HLF) Exposed!

[atticus]

Quote from Pekelo:

Psychology....

If you shorted it on the pyramid scheme accusation, chances are you expect this to go to zero, or at least close to it. So you are not going to cover above 30. Let's ask Surf where would he cover...

And anyway, where do you put a limit order on a stock that fluctuates wildly? On February 4th, the stock opened down 12% based on BS news. If you were a shorter expecting to go below 10, I assume you looked at this downgap as a confirmation of your views and kept holding it instead of covering it...

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The bounce back from the opening high again occurred at the upper BB on the daily chart...

You're talking out of your ass again.

 

[blueplayer]

Interestingly enough, most of Icahn's position (> 11M shares) are in a synthetic long expiring on May 10 2013 (>3M) and Jan 2015 (>8M).

http://www.sec.gov/Archives/edgar/data/921669/000092846413000023/hlfsch13d021413.htm

 

[atticus]

Quote from blueplayer:

Interestingly enough, most of Icahn's position (> 11M shares) are in a synthetic long expiring on May 10 2013 (>3M) and Jan 2015 (>8M).

http://www.sec.gov/Archives/edgar/data/921669/000092846413000023/hlfsch13d021413.htm

They're not synthetics. They're OTC calls.

 

[blueplayer]

Quote from atticus:

They're not synthetics. They're OTC calls.

Well, he sold european puts and bought american calls, It is close enough to a synthetic long position, would you not agree?

The gist of the comment is that most of the position is in options.

 

[Pekelo]

Quote from atticus:

You're talking out of your ass again.

The best place to get good info...

I couldn't fail to notice the lack of counter argument in your post....

 

[atticus]

Quote from blueplayer:

Well, he sold european puts and bought american calls, It is close enough to a synthetic long position, would you not agree?

The gist of the comment is that most of the position is in options.

Do you have any strike data? From a glance it looked like he mostly bot American calls.

 

[atticus]

Quote from Pekelo:

The best place to get good info...

I couldn't fail to notice the lack of counter argument in your post....

You're an idiot. You don't make arguments. You state "psychology" as though it's a quantitative measure.

 

[oldtime]

Quote from atticus:

Do you have any strike data? From a glance it looked like he mostly bot American calls.

he was just on tv
long calls
short puts

claims he's going to excercise the calls
says he's waiting for permission from the sec

 

[atticus]

Quote from blueplayer:

Well, he sold european puts and bought american calls, It is close enough to a synthetic long position, would you not agree?

The gist of the comment is that most of the position is in options.

It was easy to find once you stated he'd sold puts. I'd not seen the reference to the puts.

Here it is:

Call Options
The Reporting Persons purchased, in the over the counter market, American-style call options referencing an aggregate of 8,311,738 Shares, which expire on January 28, 2015. The Reporting Persons also purchased, in the over the counter market, American-style call options referencing an aggregate of 3,230,606 Shares, which expire on May 10, 2013.

The agreements provide for physical settlement (unless the Reporting Person opts for a cash settlement). These agreements do not give the Reporting Persons direct or indirect voting, investment or dispositive control over the Shares to which these agreements relate. These agreements are further described in Item 5(c).

Put Options
The Reporting Persons have sold, in the over the counter market, European-style put options referencing an aggregate of 8,311,738 Shares, which expire on the earlier of January 28, 2015 or the date on which the corresponding American-style call option described above in this Item 6 is exercised. The Reporting Persons have also sold, in the over the counter market, European-style put options referencing an aggregate of 3,230,606 Shares, which expire on the earlier of May 10, 2013 or the date on which the corresponding American-style call option described above in this Item 6 is exercised.

The agreements provide that they settle in cash. These agreements do not give the Reporting Persons direct or indirect voting, investment or dispositive control over the Shares to which these agreements relate.

Except as otherwise described herein, there are no contracts, arrangements, understandings or relationships (legal or otherwise) among the persons named in Item 2 and between such persons and any person with respect to any securities of the Issuer, including but not limited to transfer or voting of any of the securities, finder's fees, joint ventures, loan or option arrangements, puts or calls, guarantees of profits, division of profits or loss, or the giving or withholding of proxies.



Absolutely a synthetic, assuming strikes are close. Cash-settled.

 

[blueplayer]

Quote from atticus:

Do you have any strike data? From a glance it looked like he mostly bot American calls.

From the filing it seems that May calls have an strike of 23.5 and the Jan 2015 ones have an strike of 26.

For the puts is only reported that he sold european style puts in the same amount that the corresponding calls and that they expire on the expiration date or when the calls get exercised whichever comes first. No idea about the strikes for the puts. It could be assumed that is the same one than the calls but I'm not sure.