Herbalife (HLF) Exposed!

[Pekelo]

Quote from newwurldmn:

As long as he doesn't say anything that's not true then how is it market manipulation?

Good question. Maybe not strictly speaking, but I guess anything that can effect the market (and widely releasing positive or negative info is such a thing) can be looked at as manipulating the information, thus the market....

You have to agree, he wanted the price to go down and he achieved that.Probably the closest to what he did is the bear raid:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bear_raid

"A bear raid can be done by spreading negative rumors about the target firm, which puts downward pressure on the share price."

Now you can say it was the truth not rumors, what he was spreading, but it was still manipulation...

 

[syswizard]

Quote from Pekelo:

Probably the closest to what he did is the bear raid:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bear_raid

"A bear raid can be done by spreading negative rumors about the target firm, which puts downward pressure on the share price."

Now you can say it was the truth not rumors, what he was spreading, but it was still manipulation...

If it's proven to be UNtrue in a court of law, then Ackerman stands to lose...BIG time.

HerbaLife has been operating profitably.....for a long, long time. It has many satisfied customers. It has a premier endorsement personage in David Becham.

 

[newwurldmn]

Quote from Pekelo:

Good question. Maybe not strictly speaking, but I guess anything that can effect the market (and widely releasing positive or negative info is such a thing) can be looked at as manipulating the information, thus the market....

You have to agree, he wanted the price to go down and he achieved that.Probably the closest to what he did is the bear raid:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bear_raid

"A bear raid can be done by spreading negative rumors about the target firm, which puts downward pressure on the share price."

Now you can say it was the truth not rumors, what he was spreading, but it was still manipulation...

You are implying that no one can talk about anything involving stocks. If I say, "I am long Walmart stock." then it can be contrued that I am manipulating the market against the bears.

It may not feel right to you because Ackman's voice carries so much weight to so many people, but what he did is legitimate. And I bet you there is no expert who would agree with you. I'm sure Ackman had that presentation vetted by a team of lawyers (for libel) before he presented it at a conference for a charity.

 

[sprstpd]

Quote from syswizard:

If it's proven to be UNtrue in a court of law, then Ackerman stands to lose...BIG time.

HerbaLife has been operating profitably.....for a long, long time. It has many satisfied customers. It has a premier endorsement personage in David Becham.

Ackman was just stating the obvious that it is a ponzi scheme. This is not the first time it has been suggested. I personally hope Herbalife doesn't exist as a company in the near future. I'm sure David Beckham will be shattered by this news.

 

[zdreg]

Quote from Pekelo:

Good question. Maybe not strictly speaking, but I guess anything that can effect the market (and widely releasing positive or negative info is such a thing) can be looked at as manipulating the information, thus the market....

You have to agree, he wanted the price to go down and he achieved that.Probably the closest to what he did is the bear raid:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bear_raid

"A bear raid can be done by spreading negative rumors about the target firm, which puts downward pressure on the share price."

Now you can say it was the truth not rumors, what he was spreading, but it was still manipulation...

" Now you can say it was the truth not rumors, what he was spreading, but it was still manipulation... "
statement is nonsensical. there is no basis.
_____________

from syswizard
"If it's proven to be UNtrue in a court of law, then Ackerman stands to lose...BIG time."
statement is nonsensical. there is no basis.
_____________

 

[newwurldmn]

Quote from sprstpd:

Ackman was just stating the obvious that it is a ponzi scheme. This is not the first time it has been suggested. I personally hope Herbalife doesn't exist as a company in the near future. I'm sure David Beckham will be shattered by this news.

He'll be shattered by the 40MM check he's not going continue receiving.

(that's a made up rumor.)

 

[Pekelo]

Quote from zdreg:

statement is nonsensical. there is no basis.

Except the dictionary? Miriam says hi:

ma·nip·u·late :

1. to manage or influence skillfully, especially in an unfair manner
2. to handle, manage, or use, especially with skill, in some process of treatment or performance: to manipulate a large tractor.
3. to adapt or change (accounts, figures, etc.) to suit one's purpose or advantage.
4. Medicine/Medical . to examine or treat by skillful use of the hands, as in palpation, reduction of dislocations, or changing the position of a fetus

If you ask, my own definition would be: to skillfully act or manage to achieve a certain effect or outcome.

Here is an even better one from the free dictionary:

ma·nip·u·la·tion (m-npy-lshn)
n.
1.
a. The act or practice of manipulating.
b. The state of being manipulated.
2. Shrewd or devious management, especially for one's own advantage.

Sure you can manipulate with the truth, happens all the time in politics. How you release the info, when you release it. How come lots of the bad info comes out on Friday afternoon or when other bigger news overshadow them? Simple damage control, or as we can call it MANIPULATION.

 

[hajimow]

Ackman tried to pump up JCP but he couldn't. He has a huge long position on JCP.

I bought his idea that HLF is a short but I hate myself that I did not act. The first time that I got the news HLF was at 39 and the Jan 35 PUT option was at $2. I wanted to buy some PUTs but I didn't. Now the PUTs are over $12.

 

[atticus]

Quote from newwurldmn:

You are implying that no one can talk about anything involving stocks. If I say, "I am long Walmart stock." then it can be contrued that I am manipulating the market against the bears.

It may not feel right to you because Ackman's voice carries so much weight to so many people, but what he did is legitimate. And I bet you there is no expert who would agree with you. I'm sure Ackman had that presentation vetted by a team of lawyers (for libel) before he presented it at a conference for a charity.

+1

Ackman knows what he's doing. A year of research is a euphemism for 11 months for Goodwin and Proctor to green light the release.

 

[loufah]

The anxiously awaited analyst day is tomorrow. At-the-money options expiring Friday have an IV of 150. How would you play this?