Help me buy a new car (and what about cars and gender?)

Quote from max401:

Try that on a new Bimmer or Benz. What do you mean by "Bluebook?" That usually relates to used cars.
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There is a "blue book" for new cars. But you are right. It is pretty meaningless. It gives "invoice" prices, which don't really mean much. It takes a lot more homework to find out about current factory to dealer incentives and stuff like that.

But Longshot is right in theory. If you know the cost of the car to the dealership, you are in a strong position (only if they are not moving inventory quickly). It costs a dealership money to keep a new car on the lot (they have to pay interest, and other costs on unsold inventory). So if you offer them $X dollars above their cost, you should be able to pull off a good deal (a purchase is a lot simpler than a lease).

The only thing is, in Longshot's example, $100 will not usually do the trick.

The dealership does have to make a profit. They are not in business to break even or lose money. They need to pay the sales person something (sometimes it can be as little as $50 or $100). They need to pay rent, and other overhead.

So while $100 over "dead cost" is not a sure deal by any means, $500 should do it about every time.

If you have a decent trade in, that is the very best way to work a deal on a new car. Because the trade in is virtually always going to give the dealership a chance for a bigger profit than they can make on almost any new car (certainly Mercedes and BMW's are usually an exception. Supply and demand give the dealerships an edge). But most new cars do not have a lot of profit in them for the dealers. But a used car (that is kept and sold....not wholesaled out), will almost always be more profitable for the dealership than any new car.

Go find Kelly Blue Book on Google. You can see the spread between "invoice" and "list" on new cars. You can also see the spread between "wholesale" and "retail" on used cars. The spreads are HUGE on used cars, and pretty tight on new cars.

Peace,
:)RS
 
Quote from max401:

Try that on a new Bimmer or Benz. What do you mean by "Bluebook?" That usually relates to used cars.
More...
LOL - yeah. I tried on my Bimmer, and I am pretty tought selling on the ask and buying and the bid, but I saw Bimmers flying out the door like it was buying a pillow or something.

Demand was greater than supply :( So I didn't buy on the bid, but I didn't lift the offer either. I offered to split it with them. That got some resistance, but _I_ stiffened then. We made a deal.

On the whole, I am happy. 2.9% APR over 5 years. Bumper to bumper don't touch a thing (not even the oil change on the car) warrantee for 5 or 50k miles, and I split the invoice/retail.

nitro
 
Quote from Error 404:



There is a "blue book" for new cars. But you are right. It is pretty meaningless. It gives "invoice" prices, which don't really mean much. It takes a lot more homework to find out about current factory to dealer incentives and stuff like that.

But Longshot is right in theory. If you know the cost of the car to the dealership, you are in a strong position (only if they are not moving inventory quickly). It costs a dealership money to keep a new car on the lot (they have to pay interest, and other costs on unsold inventory). So if you offer them $X dollars above their cost, you should be able to pull off a good deal (a purchase is a lot simpler than a lease).

The only thing is, in Longshot's example, $100 will not usually do the trick.

The dealership does have to make a profit. They are not in business to break even or lose money. They need to pay the sales person something (sometimes it can be as little as $50 or $100). They need to pay rent, and other overhead.

So while $100 over "dead cost" is not a sure deal by any means, $500 should do it about every time.

If you have a decent trade in, that is the very best way to work a deal on a new car. Because the trade in is virtually always going to give the dealership a chance for a bigger profit than they can make on almost any new car (certainly Mercedes and BMW's are usually an exception. Supply and demand give the dealerships an edge). But most new cars do not have a lot of profit in them for the dealers. But a used car (that is kept and sold....not wholesaled out), will almost always be more profitable for the dealership than any new car.

Go find Kelly Blue Book on Google. You can see the spread between "invoice" and "list" on new cars. You can also see the spread between "wholesale" and "retail" on used cars. The spreads are HUGE on used cars, and pretty tight on new cars.

Peace,
:)RS
More...
He said check bluebook and what dealer has in it. All you need is invoice and the rebates and/or kickbacks.

The "huge" spread is deceptive; you just ponificated on not paying sticker for new, you think it's any different for used? The key for used profit is the customer has no idea of what the dealer cost is; too many variables. That's why they jack those "bluebook" prices.
 
Quote from nitro:


LOL - yeah. I tried on my Bimmer, and I am pretty tought selling on the ask and buying and the bid, but I saw Bimmers flying out the door like it was buying a pillow or something.

Demand was greater than supply :( So I didn't lift the offer, but I didn't buy on the ask either. I offered to split it with them. That got some resistance, but _I_ stiffened then. We made a deal.

On the whole, I am happy. 2.9% APR over 5 years. Bumper to bumper don't touch a thing (not even the oil change on the car) warrantee for 5 or 50k miles, and I split the invoice/retail.

nitro
More...

yeah,,

you got reamed! :p

ben dover..

for the beamer dealer nitro..

heh

bottom line is..

you were sold b4 you walked on dealership,,,

:p
 
Quote from LongShot:



i'm saying know what the dealer has in the car,, as close as possible (you will never know for sure but you can come close..

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/t...f=sr_1_3/102-4491572-5812108?v=glance&s=books

get the bastids, b4 they get you! :)
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Hey, they only have a bad rep because they have to deal with customers who will: "Be Back.", "Gotta check with the wife.", "No, my car has never been wrecked." and "The other dealer said I could buy it for $X."
 
Quote from max401:

The "huge" spread is deceptive; you just ponificated on not paying sticker for new, you think it's any different for used? The key for used profit is the customer has no idea of what the dealer cost is; too many variables. That's why they jack those "bluebook" prices.
More...




OK...it is all semantics at this point.

The truth is, the absolute easiest way to get a great deal on a new car if you have a trade in is to not even bother dickering with the price of the new car. Pay the full sticker price. Get a great allowance on your trade in. It doesn't matter really to you, the buyer.

But to the new car sales manager, getting full sticker price (even though it is a phantom deal) is a "feather in his cap".

So you trade a used car that is worth 10k, and get 15k for it. They write up the deal where you are buying a new 40K car for the full 40k.

You are now paying 25k along with your trade. Does it matter to you if you are getting 10k for your car and paying 35k for the new car? Is it better than paying 40k for the new car and getting 15k for your car? The answer is no. The bottom line is the same. Sales tax is based on the difference, so that is the same also.

But for reasons that are beneficial to the dealer, it is better for them to sell the new car at list and give you a better trade. So like the Amazon books say, it pays to know the game. And know what the dealerships don't want you to know.

Of course, this really works best if you have a saleable used car to turn in. Ideally one the dealership can sell on it's own lot. Most cars just get sold at wholesale auction. This is because most new car dealerships have very little market for most of their trade ins. A Porsche dealership is not going to put your used Pontiac on their lot....no matter how few miles and how good the condition. They just won't have buyers for Pontiacs walking onto the Porsche lot. Trade in a car for another same make car, and you are in the "drivers seat" so to say. Customer Loyalty programs exist for a lot of reasons. This is one of them. The used car will virtually ALWAYS have more potential profit for the dealership than a new car.


Max posted the selling prices of cars sold at a dealer's wholesale auction. Take virtually any one of those cars, compare it to the Kelley Blue Book value of the same car, and you can see that the mark up on used cars is enormous. This is why when you buy a used car at a dealership, they will be happy to show you the "book". And this will usually seem to show that they are giving you a good deal.

BTW, if a dealership is NOT willing to show the book to you (and Kelley Blue Book is NOT the best source...NADA (National Automobile Dealer's Association) Yellow Book is much better. It is what the dealers themselves use. Not available to the public like the Kelley Blue Book.....And it is regional, which makes a big difference. A 2 wheel drive Jeep is worthless in Colorado, yet may be a desirable car in Florida. Etc. Well, if they won't show you the book on your car, just call your bank. They have the books, and will give you the prices on the phone in most cases. Just the mention of this at a dealership will generally get them to "open the book" for you. They do NOT want you and the the bank to be "allies"....they (the dealership) wants to be your "friend"....they also want to arrange financing for you. So having the bank on your side is not good business for them on more than one front. (I think your insurance company may also have the "book" information for you too. I can't remember for sure, but I think they do).

Peace,
:)RS
 
Quote from Error 404:






OK...it is all semantics at this point.

The truth is, the absolute easiest way to get a great deal on a new car if you have a trade in is to not even bother dickering with the price of the new car. Pay the full sticker price. Get a great allowance on your trade in. It doesn't matter really to you, the buyer.

But to the new car sales manager, getting full sticker price (even though it is a phantom deal) is a "feather in his cap".

So you trade a used car that is worth 10k, and get 15k for it. They write up the deal where you are buying a new 40K car for the full 40k.

You are now paying 25k along with your trade. Does it matter to you if you are getting 10k for your car and paying 35k for the new car? Is it better than paying 40k for the new car and getting 15k for your car? The answer is no. The bottom line is the same. Sales tax is based on the difference, so that is the same also.

But for reasons that are beneficial to the dealer, it is better for them to sell the new car at list and give you a better trade. So like the Amazon books say, it pays to know the game. And know what the dealerships don't want you to know.

Of course, this really works best if you have a saleable used car to turn in. Ideally one the dealership can sell on it's own lot. Most cars just get sold at wholesale auction. This is because most new car dealerships have very little market for most of their trade ins. A Porsche dealership is not going to put your used Pontiac on their lot....no matter how few miles and how good the condition. They just won't have buyers for Pontiacs walking onto the Porsche lot. Trade in a car for another same make car, and you are in the "drivers seat" so to say. Customer Loyalty programs exist for a lot of reasons. This is one of them. The used car will virtually ALWAYS have more potential profit for the dealership than a new car.


Max posted the selling prices of cars sold at a dealer's wholesale auction. Take virtually any one of those cars, compare it to the Kelley Blue Book value of the same car, and you can see that the mark up on used cars is enormous. This is why when you buy a used car at a dealership, they will be happy to show you the "book". And this will usually seem to show that they are giving you a good deal.

BTW, if a dealership is NOT willing to show the book to you (and Kelley Blue Book is NOT the best source...NADA (National Automobile Dealer's Association) Yellow Book is much better. It is what the dealers themselves use. Not available to the public like the Kelley Blue Book.....And it is regional, which makes a big difference. A 2 wheel drive Jeep is worthless in Colorado, yet may be a desirable car in Florida. Etc. Well, if they won't show you the book on your car, just call your bank. They have the books, and will give you the prices on the phone in most cases. Just the mention of this at a dealership will generally get them to "open the book" for you. They do NOT want you and the the bank to be "allies"....they (the dealership) wants to be your "friend"....they also want to arrange financing for you. So having the bank on your side is not good business for them on more than one front. (I think your insurance company may also have the "book" information for you too. I can't remember for sure, but I think they do).

Peace,
:)RS
More...
That Amazon book has gone to your head. No one pays sticker, that's a fact. Your trade can't help you, only allows the dealer another way to manipulate the deal.

What if the dealer has underallowed for your car? You get say, 20K on the deal, the dealer books it in for 22K, putting the 2K on his new car profit.

What if he overallows? He gives you 22K on paper, because you have a high payoff or simply demand that price for your trade, he then books it in for the real value of 20K, eating the 2K on his new car deal. In other words, you could most likely buy that new car for $2K less.

The dealers nightmare: You negotiate a good price on the new car and he's underallowing for your trade, you pull the trade out of the deal at the last minute. Is that in your Amazon book?
 
Quote from Error 404:






OK...it is all semantics at this point.

The truth is, the absolute easiest way to get a great deal on a new car if you have a trade in is to not even bother dickering with the price of the new car. Pay the full sticker price. Get a great allowance on your trade in. It doesn't matter really to you, the buyer.

But to the new car sales manager, getting full sticker price (even though it is a phantom deal) is a "feather in his cap".

So you trade a used car that is worth 10k, and get 15k for it. They write up the deal where you are buying a new 40K car for the full 40k.

You are now paying 25k along with your trade. Does it matter to you if you are getting 10k for your car and paying 35k for the new car? Is it better than paying 40k for the new car and getting 15k for your car? The answer is no. The bottom line is the same. Sales tax is based on the difference, so that is the same also.

But for reasons that are beneficial to the dealer, it is better for them to sell the new car at list and give you a better trade. So like the Amazon books say, it pays to know the game. And know what the dealerships don't want you to know.

Of course, this really works best if you have a saleable used car to turn in. Ideally one the dealership can sell on it's own lot. Most cars just get sold at wholesale auction. This is because most new car dealerships have very little market for most of their trade ins. A Porsche dealership is not going to put your used Pontiac on their lot....no matter how few miles and how good the condition. They just won't have buyers for Pontiacs walking onto the Porsche lot. Trade in a car for another same make car, and you are in the "drivers seat" so to say. Customer Loyalty programs exist for a lot of reasons. This is one of them. The used car will virtually ALWAYS have more potential profit for the dealership than a new car.


Max posted the selling prices of cars sold at a dealer's wholesale auction. Take virtually any one of those cars, compare it to the Kelley Blue Book value of the same car, and you can see that the mark up on used cars is enormous. This is why when you buy a used car at a dealership, they will be happy to show you the "book". And this will usually seem to show that they are giving you a good deal.

BTW, if a dealership is NOT willing to show the book to you (and Kelley Blue Book is NOT the best source...NADA (National Automobile Dealer's Association) Yellow Book is much better. It is what the dealers themselves use. Not available to the public like the Kelley Blue Book.....And it is regional, which makes a big difference. A 2 wheel drive Jeep is worthless in Colorado, yet may be a desirable car in Florida. Etc. Well, if they won't show you the book on your car, just call your bank. They have the books, and will give you the prices on the phone in most cases. Just the mention of this at a dealership will generally get them to "open the book" for you. They do NOT want you and the the bank to be "allies"....they (the dealership) wants to be your "friend"....they also want to arrange financing for you. So having the bank on your side is not good business for them on more than one front. (I think your insurance company may also have the "book" information for you too. I can't remember for sure, but I think they do).

bend over & sped your ckkeeks you idiot..




Peace,
:)RS
More...
:p


yo deserve it,
 
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