There's another thread about this firm. Do your due diligence and lookup the head person for NASD infractions. I've spoke w/ the guy and asked him directly about it. He denied it was him but admits to living in the same part of long island where the infraction took place. Coincidence? You make your own conclusions.
Help learning about a Firm "Traders Capital" in Chicago.
- Thread starter GustyWind
- Start date
I appreciate everyone on their honest insight. I did search for the firm on ET, but didn't find any good posting. Having said that it is my fault for not finding the one mentioned on last comment. I do believe there has to be some more items, on the forum which is why I like coming here for research.
When I met with these guys, they seemed nice enough. However, for me, usually the biggest reg flag is when someone tells you: "we wanna train you and give you firm capital and make you the best trader you can be - but you need to put some money up".
This clearly means that as soon as you lose money, you're out the door and so is your "deposit".
After our meeting at the Willis Tower, I attempted to politely decline their offer when I returned home. There was no way I was going to put up any of my own cash. It just didn't feel right. If they were truly who they claimed to be, then they should have no problem putting their money where their confidence is and back me 100%.
What ensued was a back and forth email exchange where Eli was basically badgering me to put up money. And if I didn't have it, then to find somebody I could borrow it from. It was really quite pathetic. He seemed like a desperate shyster attempting anything to separate me from my cash. It was clear then that this was no place for me.
This clearly means that as soon as you lose money, you're out the door and so is your "deposit".
After our meeting at the Willis Tower, I attempted to politely decline their offer when I returned home. There was no way I was going to put up any of my own cash. It just didn't feel right. If they were truly who they claimed to be, then they should have no problem putting their money where their confidence is and back me 100%.
What ensued was a back and forth email exchange where Eli was basically badgering me to put up money. And if I didn't have it, then to find somebody I could borrow it from. It was really quite pathetic. He seemed like a desperate shyster attempting anything to separate me from my cash. It was clear then that this was no place for me.
Um, every one of them expects you to put down cash...
Which beach did you wash ashore on?
Just dug up the old emails for your entertainment. There were also a couple phone calls from Eli mixed in here as well...
Eli -
It was great to meet you and Ira today. I enjoyed learning about you and your business.
Thanks for reaching out to me this afternoon to meet me halfway on the capital issue. It shows your commitment to building a lasting partnership with me.
As we discussed, I currently trade risk-defined calendar spread strategies in equity options - primarily indexes. While I'm currently trading with a minuscule capital allocation, I am consistently earning 5-10% monthly returns. At this rate, the account won't be small for long.
One of the things you mentioned you liked about me was my healthy respect for managing risk. I am in this business for the long haul. As such, the risk to me of closing my current trading account and abandoning a system that is working, to try a new daytrading strategy in futures markets in a highly levered situation doesn't represent a prudent risk/reward trade for me. If I were to lose my equity with you, I am completely out of the game and out of business.
This leaves us at a crossroads with three possible routes to take:
Traders Capital can allow me to trade my current strategy and supply me with additional capital to compliment my current capital. This would satisfy your need for a deposit - as I would move my current account to you. And this would probably be the most profitable route for all interested parties.
Traders Capital can be creative and allow me to Trade futures with no equity to start. In this situation we can work out a mutually beneficial arrangement where I build up equity with you through my trading profits. Until equity is created, risk will be closely monitored within acceptable parameters. I can also add value in others ways - you mentioned perhaps mentoring and training young traders.
We can stay in touch and possibly work together down the road when I am in a better financial position to bring risk capital to your firm.
I'm willing to entertain all three options and can be flexible within each model. However, the one constant that will remain is that currently I cannot contribute any capital to your firm. Whichever you decide, I thank you for the opportunity and wish you the best of luck.
Take care,
Sean
**********************
from Eli Mellul
to Sean McLaughlin
date Fri, Oct 9, 2009 at 6:01 AM
subject RE:
Can you do those Calendar spreads in futures ?
**************************
from Sean McLaughlin
to Eli Mellul
date Fri, Oct 9, 2009 at 6:37 AM
subject Re:
Eli -
It would be possible to do calendar spreads on futures options. It may also be possible to do them on futures themselves, however, that is a different game and one I'm unfamiliar with.
I understand that your clients want to have a futures component to their portfolios. Futures are derivatives. Options are derivatives. At the end of the day, all that matters is how much money they've made. If they've seen a return of 10 percent on their money at the end of 30 days...does it really matter whether it was delivered by a corn future trade or a SPY calendar spread?
I'm willing to put my money behind what I know works for me. I'm willing and able to try anything else you'd like me to, but you'll have to provide the capital. In exchange, I'll work my tail off to make it worth your risk.
-Sean
******************************
from Eli Mellul
to sean@gmail.com
date Fri, Oct 9, 2009 at 6:45 AM
subject RE:
Yes and I will tell you why are pool is based is strictly on futures , I need to be very direct with Traders Capital look at what you are truly receiving not only leverage but the ability to have a Sales Team to raise capital. I realize how precious that Capital is to you but the reality no one is going to truly accept that track record in its current condition. But we have the muscle and know how to execute on your behalf, look at the big picture
******************************
from Sean McLaughlin
to Eli Mellul
cc ira.schwartz
date Fri, Oct 9, 2009 at 9:19 AM
subject Re:
Gentlemen -
It appears as though "option 3" as I laid out previously is our only course to take. I cannot and will not budge on my current capital restraints. I sense that you guys are in this for the longhaul, and as such, I'm perfectly willing to re-engage with you down the road when I have some money to burn.
The service you offer is certainly valuable and interesting to me. When I'm in a better position to take full advantage of it - we'll both benefit accordingly.
Thanks for your persistence. Best of luck. If there is anything I can help you guys with in the future, please don't hesitate to ask.
Take care,
Sean
****************************
from Eli Mellul
to Sean McLaughlin
cc ira.schwartz
date Fri, Oct 9, 2009 at 9:26 AM
subject RE:
Sean,
I want to do something for you in a major way , try raise the money
*****************************
from Sean McLaughlin
to Eli Mellul
cc ira.schwartz
date Fri, Oct 9, 2009 at 9:51 AM
subject Re:
Eli -
I have no doubt you are an upstanding citizen and mean what you say. And what you are building over there will be a great business when you've got the right people working for you. However, I've got to be honest, pressing me for money is starting to smack of desperation and doesn't support big picture thinking or longevity. It feels to me like you're in it for a quick buck. I hope I'm wrong on this feeling.
Either way, I'm quite comfortable continuing to do what I do. My current rate of return will take care of my financial needs in the long-term. I really am not looking to manage other people's money as a career. I see it as a means to an end: To earn enough money quicker to eventually be off on my own again earning what I need to support myself. I'm all about maintaining control. As the experience managing my fund taught me, when you're managing other people's money - the rug can be pulled out from underneath you with no warning at any moment, regardless of how well you've performed. I don't wish that experience on my worst enemies.
That being said, if you can find a way to work with me with no capital from me, I'll start trading for you on Monday. Just say the word.
Thanks again,
Sean
P.S. I really do appreciate your persistence, you are clearly demonstrating to me that you would be a great capital raiser for me when I have the track record to attract money.
***************************
from Eli Mellul
to Sean McLaughlin
cc ira.schwartz
date Fri, Oct 9, 2009 at 10:02 AM
subject RE:
We have to stay in compliance of our disclosure document to our investors , I just want to see it happen for you
****************************
from Sean McLaughlin
to Eli Mellul
date Fri, Oct 9, 2009 at 10:15 AM
subject Re:
Thanks, down the road when I've got the money, we'll reconvene.
Take care,
Sean
*****************************
from Eli Mellul
to Sean McLaughlin
date Fri, Oct 9, 2009 at 10:18 AM
subject RE:
I really know you would be a great fit
******************************
In hindsight...I wish I wasn't so goddamn polite
Sean
Eli -
It was great to meet you and Ira today. I enjoyed learning about you and your business.
Thanks for reaching out to me this afternoon to meet me halfway on the capital issue. It shows your commitment to building a lasting partnership with me.
As we discussed, I currently trade risk-defined calendar spread strategies in equity options - primarily indexes. While I'm currently trading with a minuscule capital allocation, I am consistently earning 5-10% monthly returns. At this rate, the account won't be small for long.
One of the things you mentioned you liked about me was my healthy respect for managing risk. I am in this business for the long haul. As such, the risk to me of closing my current trading account and abandoning a system that is working, to try a new daytrading strategy in futures markets in a highly levered situation doesn't represent a prudent risk/reward trade for me. If I were to lose my equity with you, I am completely out of the game and out of business.
This leaves us at a crossroads with three possible routes to take:
Traders Capital can allow me to trade my current strategy and supply me with additional capital to compliment my current capital. This would satisfy your need for a deposit - as I would move my current account to you. And this would probably be the most profitable route for all interested parties.
Traders Capital can be creative and allow me to Trade futures with no equity to start. In this situation we can work out a mutually beneficial arrangement where I build up equity with you through my trading profits. Until equity is created, risk will be closely monitored within acceptable parameters. I can also add value in others ways - you mentioned perhaps mentoring and training young traders.
We can stay in touch and possibly work together down the road when I am in a better financial position to bring risk capital to your firm.
I'm willing to entertain all three options and can be flexible within each model. However, the one constant that will remain is that currently I cannot contribute any capital to your firm. Whichever you decide, I thank you for the opportunity and wish you the best of luck.
Take care,
Sean
**********************
from Eli Mellul
to Sean McLaughlin
date Fri, Oct 9, 2009 at 6:01 AM
subject RE:
Can you do those Calendar spreads in futures ?
**************************
from Sean McLaughlin
to Eli Mellul
date Fri, Oct 9, 2009 at 6:37 AM
subject Re:
Eli -
It would be possible to do calendar spreads on futures options. It may also be possible to do them on futures themselves, however, that is a different game and one I'm unfamiliar with.
I understand that your clients want to have a futures component to their portfolios. Futures are derivatives. Options are derivatives. At the end of the day, all that matters is how much money they've made. If they've seen a return of 10 percent on their money at the end of 30 days...does it really matter whether it was delivered by a corn future trade or a SPY calendar spread?
I'm willing to put my money behind what I know works for me. I'm willing and able to try anything else you'd like me to, but you'll have to provide the capital. In exchange, I'll work my tail off to make it worth your risk.
-Sean
******************************
from Eli Mellul
to sean@gmail.com
date Fri, Oct 9, 2009 at 6:45 AM
subject RE:
Yes and I will tell you why are pool is based is strictly on futures , I need to be very direct with Traders Capital look at what you are truly receiving not only leverage but the ability to have a Sales Team to raise capital. I realize how precious that Capital is to you but the reality no one is going to truly accept that track record in its current condition. But we have the muscle and know how to execute on your behalf, look at the big picture
******************************
from Sean McLaughlin
to Eli Mellul
cc ira.schwartz
date Fri, Oct 9, 2009 at 9:19 AM
subject Re:
Gentlemen -
It appears as though "option 3" as I laid out previously is our only course to take. I cannot and will not budge on my current capital restraints. I sense that you guys are in this for the longhaul, and as such, I'm perfectly willing to re-engage with you down the road when I have some money to burn.
The service you offer is certainly valuable and interesting to me. When I'm in a better position to take full advantage of it - we'll both benefit accordingly.
Thanks for your persistence. Best of luck. If there is anything I can help you guys with in the future, please don't hesitate to ask.
Take care,
Sean
****************************
from Eli Mellul
to Sean McLaughlin
cc ira.schwartz
date Fri, Oct 9, 2009 at 9:26 AM
subject RE:
Sean,
I want to do something for you in a major way , try raise the money
*****************************
from Sean McLaughlin
to Eli Mellul
cc ira.schwartz
date Fri, Oct 9, 2009 at 9:51 AM
subject Re:
Eli -
I have no doubt you are an upstanding citizen and mean what you say. And what you are building over there will be a great business when you've got the right people working for you. However, I've got to be honest, pressing me for money is starting to smack of desperation and doesn't support big picture thinking or longevity. It feels to me like you're in it for a quick buck. I hope I'm wrong on this feeling.
Either way, I'm quite comfortable continuing to do what I do. My current rate of return will take care of my financial needs in the long-term. I really am not looking to manage other people's money as a career. I see it as a means to an end: To earn enough money quicker to eventually be off on my own again earning what I need to support myself. I'm all about maintaining control. As the experience managing my fund taught me, when you're managing other people's money - the rug can be pulled out from underneath you with no warning at any moment, regardless of how well you've performed. I don't wish that experience on my worst enemies.
That being said, if you can find a way to work with me with no capital from me, I'll start trading for you on Monday. Just say the word.
Thanks again,
Sean
P.S. I really do appreciate your persistence, you are clearly demonstrating to me that you would be a great capital raiser for me when I have the track record to attract money.
***************************
from Eli Mellul
to Sean McLaughlin
cc ira.schwartz
date Fri, Oct 9, 2009 at 10:02 AM
subject RE:
We have to stay in compliance of our disclosure document to our investors , I just want to see it happen for you
****************************
from Sean McLaughlin
to Eli Mellul
date Fri, Oct 9, 2009 at 10:15 AM
subject Re:
Thanks, down the road when I've got the money, we'll reconvene.
Take care,
Sean
*****************************
from Eli Mellul
to Sean McLaughlin
date Fri, Oct 9, 2009 at 10:18 AM
subject RE:
I really know you would be a great fit
******************************
In hindsight...I wish I wasn't so goddamn polite
Sean
Did they suggest that they would train you for free? If so, then putting up your own money to trade is fine. However, if they want to charge you to learn how to trade, then you would need to take much more caution to verify if they really know something with an edge, for example, being able to interview other traders at their office, and find out what they are making.
For example, if there are no traders bringing down over $ 100,000 per year, then I think they don't know what they are doing.
For futures, trading your own money is easy due to the leverage, for example, let's take Mirus futures which requires only $ 500 per contract to day trade. So if you have just $ 5,000 and you trade just 1 contract with at least emergency stops, then you will be trading petty conservatively. If you don't have at least $ 5,000 to trade, then don't bother trying to trade through prop since most of them no matter what you trade, require this much money to trade. It is extremely unlikely unless you are a CTA, anyone is going to give you money to trade futures and train you. Why should they? There are many people out there who can and will put up their own capital.
For example, if there are no traders bringing down over $ 100,000 per year, then I think they don't know what they are doing.
For futures, trading your own money is easy due to the leverage, for example, let's take Mirus futures which requires only $ 500 per contract to day trade. So if you have just $ 5,000 and you trade just 1 contract with at least emergency stops, then you will be trading petty conservatively. If you don't have at least $ 5,000 to trade, then don't bother trying to trade through prop since most of them no matter what you trade, require this much money to trade. It is extremely unlikely unless you are a CTA, anyone is going to give you money to trade futures and train you. Why should they? There are many people out there who can and will put up their own capital.
then feel free to list these firms below: