help, about trading fine

for the sake of traders here,

what I was doing is I bought 2 ZB contracts last week (I did not trade it except last week in Feb), I thought it hit support. then ZB wipsawed, I moved my stop, also my target, I just kept adjusting target and stop, held through weekend, I did not konw moving target and moving stop will create messages, and never heard about this policy.

since I moved more than 20times (i was told I created 25 messages), while I just traded 2 contracts, 25/2 is 12.5:1 that execeeded 10:1, that is the CME policy.




Quote from atrocious:

trader198 -

For the benefit of others in this thread can you please share the message IB sent you regarding the $2,000 fine?

Also how many separate days were you changing orders in ZB? You would have to violate the rule on three separate instances within 30 days to incur the fine.
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Quote from trader198:

for the sake of traders here,

what I was doing is I bought 2 ZB contracts last week (I did not trade it except last week in Feb), I thought it hit support. then ZB wipsawed, I moved my stop, also my target, I just kept adjusting target and stop, held through weekend, I did not konw moving target and moving stop will create messages, and never heard about this policy.

since I moved more than 20times (i was told I created 25 messages), while I just traded 2 contracts, 25/2 is 12.5:1 that execeeded 10:1, that is the CME policy.
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This makes no sense. Simply because OTOH 25 messages is very low and you should get warned first. This should be a lot more a problem with thousands of messages, but 2000 USD fine for 25 messages without warning STINKS.
 
Quote from NetTecture:

This makes no sense. Simply because OTOH 25 messages is very low and you should get warned first. This should be a lot more a problem with thousands of messages, but 2000 USD fine for 25 messages without warning STINKS.
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Agree. Rules are rules I suppose, but for a two contract trader to get nailed with a $2,000 fine really seems a but much.

I think most of us here assumed you had an auto-trading system running amuck and cranking out hundreds or thousands of cancels or something. But only 25 messages? Sheesh...
 
Quote from trader198:

for the sake of traders here,

what I was doing is I bought 2 ZB contracts last week (I did not trade it except last week in Feb), I thought it hit support. then ZB wipsawed, I moved my stop, also my target, I just kept adjusting target and stop, held through weekend, I did not konw moving target and moving stop will create messages, and never heard about this policy.

since I moved more than 20times (i was told I created 25 messages), while I just traded 2 contracts, 25/2 is 12.5:1 that execeeded 10:1, that is the CME policy.
More...

If this is true, leave IB. That is a joke to get fined like that without being warned. IB is notorious for horrible customer service/customer relations for a reason. The only good thing I hear about them now is they let you trade basically anything. Can get cheap commissions anywhere. IB isn't worth the hassle.
 
WOW, that is shocking. They'd make some money if they were so stringent on the bigger guys. But, then they'd lose their custom.

I was expecting someting like 100:1.

This is not what those rules were intended for i.e. a nervous 2 lot retail trader.


Make sure that the fine is passed onto CME. Demand proof.
 
Quote from trader198:

I was noticed to be fined with $2000. I was told by brokers IB to get fine $2000 this morning.
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Its most likely just a warning you got from IB.

If not, can you confirm the money has actually been taken from your account?
 
Don't know if it will do any good, but you could look for the ET member DEF, or I think DAV also works for IB.

Explain what happened and nicely ask that this fine be removed if they actually take $2K from you. Express that you, and aparently, lots of the ET members are nervous that such a large fine could hit a small trader without notice.

If that doesn't work, email every manager at IB and the CME (and the CFTC?) you can find addresses for and express your disapointment. Also email and post to every trading blog and market news site you can about what happened.

May not do anything, but you could at least work off your frustration.
 
Quote from ixus:

This is not what those rules were intended for i.e. a nervous 2 lot retail trader.
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I would like to politely disagree - it is all about ECN resources and getting paid for them. How does an exchange and a clearing firm manage ECN resources and make any revenue when you have retail punters flooding the system with messages and actually executing trades very, very little ?

Exchanges and clearing firms get paid on EXECUTION fees. You simply cannot let someone flood the ECN with 1,000 messages for 10 fills. Makes no sense. And it is bad for the other traders who choose to participate more actively in the markets and who will need those resources to execute live trades under times of market stress.

Think about it. There is a very, very good reason for a message-to-fill policy. And all electronic futures exchanges that I am aware of have those policies.
 
Quote from bone:

I would like to politely disagree - it is all about ECN resources and getting paid for them. How does an exchange and a clearing firm manage ECN resources and make any revenue when you have retail punters flooding the system with messages and actually executing trades very, very little ?

Exchanges and clearing firms get paid on EXECUTION fees. You simply cannot let someone flood the ECN with 1,000 messages for 10 fills. Makes no sense. And it is bad for the other traders who choose to participate more actively in the markets and who will need those resources to execute live trades under times of market stress.
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Bone, agree with your point here, but I think we are actually talking about an order of magnitude less - 100 for 10. He did 25 for 2 contracts. In today's world with current data rates, it just doesn't seem that bad. Yeah there are lots of traders sending lots of messages, tho...

And, as always, ya gotta know the rules or you get bit.

Good trading to all.
 
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