Hedge Funds Invade the Options Markets

Quote from HoundDogOne:

This says a lot about the idiots trading options.

Semi-intelligent n00bs with a good grasp of high school math...
Invariably chose the "sexiest" market like options...
And then proceed to bleed to death...
Real slow over time.

The variance they are up against...
Makes it impossible for most to ever figure out how it all went wrong.

Yes and no. There are always plenty of n00bs to sell premium to.

There's nothing very sexy about risk management or capped profits, but it sure as heck beats unhedged equities, no?
 
Quote from archon:



I agree with the poster who said that, at the end of the day, it's best just to be in the volume business. If you look at all of the "smart money" in the options markets, most of them have transitioned away from providing liquidity to providing order flow. Take a couple of cents per contract and churn out millions of contracts. It's a much safer and more reliable business model than trying to fight against shrinking spreads and exploding market risks. [/B]

Can you please explain how they churn out millions of contracts? How is it safer? Are the market makers considered "smart money"? How do they provide order flow???
 
Read the article again:


http://www.theoptionsinsider.com/industry/?id=127

What I was saying is that many specialist firms like Knight have gotten out of the options market-making business entirely in light of the terrible margins and high risk. Some of these firms have now switched business models entirely to develop execution systems for customers. Alternately, others have established what are known as "preferenced" or "directed" trading relationships with order flow providers. These allow them to purchase order flow and route it directly into their accounts, allowing them to cherry pick order flow and reduce their risk substantially. I'll look around the web and see if I can find some articles to clarify this for you. However, my original point was that the comment about margins being very high in the options business isn't accurate when placed in the proper, risk-adjusted context.
 
Quote from archon:

Now you know why so many people are skeptical of hedge funds acting as liquidity providers. Unlike a true options market maker, they always have another agenda which may or may not conflict with their market making.

ANY market maker does proprietary trading and is always in conflict of interest. Exchange floors were built on that premise. You really think Knight does not place positions based on order flow? I know for a fact they do, an old buddy of mine worked there and did exactly that.

A pure market maker will just focus on the spread more than placing positions. A hedge fund has to put capital to work so they will take more outright positions.

By the way, I have noted that in the last 2 years, a lot of the smart NYSE tape readers moved on to tape read options instead. Lot of human tendencies to be read, lot of shakeouts & games. There are some interesting strategies too.
 
Quote from Hydroblunt:

ANY market maker does proprietary trading and is always in conflict of interest. Exchange floors were built on that premise. You really think Knight does not place positions based on order flow? I know for a fact they do, an old buddy of mine worked there and did exactly that.

By the way, I have noted that in the last 2 years, a lot of the smart NYSE tape readers moved on to tape read options instead. Lot of human tendencies to be read, lot of shakeouts & games. There are some interesting strategies too.

Actually, Knight can do whatever they want since they are essentially out of the options market making game. They saw the writing on the wall years before anyone else did.

As for trying to read the tape in the options markets, I wish them a hearty GOOD LUCK!!! Trying to trade paper flow in options is a fool's errand. Options are not a zero sum game like stocks. One guy can buy a call and one guy can sell that same call to him and they can both be right and make money. It's a question of hedging, existing positions, etc. So looking at the tape, seeing 10,000 calls trade then assuming that the buyer thinks the stock is going up is a fool's errand at best. But more power to anyone who thinks they can make money doing that. If they can succeed, then they'll be the first.....
 
Quote from Hydroblunt:

By the way, I have noted that in the last 2 years, a lot of the smart NYSE tape readers moved on to tape read options instead. Lot of human tendencies to be read, lot of shakeouts & games. There are some interesting strategies too. [/B]

Say what? You serious? If so, what exactly are you referring to , since the last time I looked the options ticked with the underlying.
 
Quote from archon:


Options are not a zero sum game like stocks.

Um... you're confused. Options ARE a zero sum game, they have to be - each options contract has someone on the other side of it. The stock market, however, is not a 0 sum game, since all longs are not matched by shorts.
 
Quote from archon:

Actually, Knight can do whatever they want since they are essentially out of the options market making game. They saw the writing on the wall years before anyone else did.

I was pointing to Knight as an example of a MARKET MAKER, not necessarily as an options maker, which I did not even know they did. Only reason I mention Knight and not some big bulge bracket firm is because I know someone who worked there and leeched off order flow.
Market makers get order flow. Then they piggyback it. They also have control over the fills. Hence the spread. Does not matter what instrument.

As for trying to read the tape in the options markets, I wish them a hearty GOOD LUCK!!! Trying to trade paper flow in options is a fool's errand. Options are not a zero sum game like stocks. One guy can buy a call and one guy can sell that same call to him and they can both be right and make money. It's a question of hedging, existing positions, etc. So looking at the tape, seeing 10,000 calls trade then assuming that the buyer thinks the stock is going up is a fool's errand at best. But more power to anyone who thinks they can make money doing that. If they can succeed, then they'll be the first.....

Yes, you can tape read it. However it's more advanced. I've had a quick explanation of it, or really, the guy was telling me how he intra-day traded options. He basically read the bid/ask & prints, but that was only part of the whole trade. It made perfect sense to me.
It's not as simple as tapereading the same 5 NYSE stocks day in and day out, it's quite more evolved. The tapereading is only part of the strategy but it's significant and can give you that edge over the rest.
Option MMs play many games on which you can pick up on. When a relatively inactive OTM call is seeing some need from a retail trader, the MM starts playing games. I've been there and have been screwed. But I had to experience it to fully see it.
 
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