Heaven is a fairy tale, says physicist Hawking

[stu]

Quote from Lucrum:

Uh no my point is that science does not know everything and sometimes even what they think they know turns out to be wrong.

This is like your "what laws of physics?" style of argument.

You don't have a point as it never....."turns out to be wrong"..... without science.

The science you say made the mistake, is the only way that CAN find out if it was a mistake. Something that corrects its own mistakes is worth much more than you are giving it credit for. The reality of that is obvious and it's all around you.

Surely you're just horsing around. I hope so for your own sake.

 

[stu]

Quote from bone:

Never said there was - the atheists are making that very point based upon the musings of one famous physicist with a very severe and debilitating case of ALS. A point that neither atheist nor religious zeolot can prove unless one of them dies and then wants to profer an opinion.

I completed high "B" work in quantum mechanics and nuclear physics, so maybe if someone can point me in the direction of his work on black holes or relativity where God's existence has been disproved then maybe I can stumble my way through the executive summary and then proceed to begin my career in church arson.

It's already been said.
There is no need for science to disprove God or other such mythical concepts, nor does it.

Stephen Hawking is not musing. Maybe if you’d studied your science a little harder to “A” perhaps, you wouldn’t have said that.

He is stating the universe does not need a Creator God, as it is quite capable to form from nothing, due to gravity and the laws of physics allowing such a thing.

In regard to your other somewhat also extreme remark, there is nothing whatsoever to suggest dying is any more likely to provide information other than to the living. Specifically that someone is dead !

Why would you want to even suggest some kind of preferable knowledge to that which science provides is available in death or from a fictitious dictator deity, unless in the pursuit of fantasy?
It provides no practical answer to anything, let alone how the universe actually works.
It sure has nothing to do with a “B” in quantum mechanics.

 

[Lucrum]

Quote from stu:

The science you say made the mistake, is the only way that CAN find out if it was a mistake. Something that corrects its own mistakes is worth much more than you are giving it credit for.

You presume too much. I enjoy/embrace science as much as any one here.

But that does not change the fact that science/scientists do not have all the answers and even some of the ones they think they have turn out later to be wrong. That statement is not withholding due credit for science its simply pointing out an undeniable fact of science. A fact that seems to make you uncomfortable.

 

[Free Thinker]

Quote from RCG Trader:

You are angry FT. And don't mean that in an Oprah sense. I have followed your posts with interest. A lot of what you followed for a majority of your life you have falsified, much like Captain Obvious. I cannot pass any kind of judgement, as I would not be qualified to do so, but I would have to ask, how do you know beyond a considerable doubt that there is no higher power? Notice I did not say Yahweh, or Allah, etc.

How do you know, for certain, that all you perceive, is all there is?

nope i dont get angry. i am a very controlled person. you are correct however. much of what i believed as a child has been falsified. by reason logic and evidence. isnt that what a freethinking person should strive for. to let reason and logic based on evidence be your guide to what is true in life instead of superstition based on emotions?
how do we know beyond a considerable doubt? consider this. absolute agnosticism is a cop out. You are conceding that you are not competent enough to make a rational analysis based on fact. There is no absolute certainty in this world, yet it is safe to make general assumptions based on proven facts. I know there is no big foot, I know there are no wizards and witches or god, because I put my trust in the concept of verifiable evidence.

 

[maxpi]

Science is something else all the time... they have to keep stretching the universes' age to keep their theories fitting.. they use logic to support their ideas that would get them an F grade in Philosophy 101 but they dress all their conjecture in the trappings of science and give themselves an A+, they control the venue for debate with vicious hiring practices in the Universities... match them up with the experts of the middle ages that were backed by the Church and you see the similar actions...

 

[RCG Trader]

Quote from Free Thinker:

nope i dont get angry. i am a very controlled person. you are correct however. much of what i believed as a child has been falsified. by reason logic and evidence. isnt that what a freethinking person should strive for. to let reason and logic based on evidence be your guide to what is true in life instead of superstition based on emotions?
how do we know beyond a considerable doubt? consider this. absolute agnosticism is a cop out. You are conceding that you are not competent enough to make a rational analysis based on fact. There is no absolute certainty in this world, yet it is safe to make general assumptions based on proven facts. I know there is no big foot, I know there are no wizards and witches or god, because I put my trust in the concept of verifiable evidence.

The issue that I have is that verifiable evidence often becomes falisfied. Take UFO's. Four people get out of that car in the middle of a cornfield. They see it, it is there. They come back to town and tell us. We listen, but suspect they have been sipping too much road soda. They get vocal about it, end up on Art Bell, or if it's a government built saucer, Alex Jones We have never found evidence of others in the universe so we must be alone, it is patently obvious, right?

Now take a higher power, just because you have never experienced it does not mean that it is not there. Logically, it is really absolute atheism that is the cop out, because as I said before even a dog can sense things you can't. You have substituted one religion for other. A thinking man will remain skeptical but will continue to inquire.

 

[stu]

Quote from Lucrum:

You presume too much. I enjoy/embrace science as much as any one here.

But that does not change the fact that science/scientists do not have all the answers and even some of the ones they think they have turn out later to be wrong. That statement is not withholding due credit for science its simply pointing out an undeniable fact of science. A fact that seems to make you uncomfortable.

Your point is becoming even more obscure.
No one is saying science/ scientists do have the answers to everything...so.... what exactly?

Is it that because science doesn't know everything, a mystical supernatural unkown beardy bloke may/did/could have created the universe?
Is that what you're suggesting?

 

[Kassz007]

Quote from bone:

Barack Obama believes in God. He says so all the time. And we all know how smart and intellectual he is. As a matter of fact, 99% of the elected progressives in America proclaim their belief in a divinity.

Given many Americans' hardcore religious beliefs, it would be political suicide to not at least pretend to believe in god in public.

 

[Gabfly1]

 

[Lucrum]

Quote from stu:

Is it that because science doesn't know everything, a mystical supernatural unkown beardy bloke may/did/could have created the universe?
Is that what you're suggesting?

Not necesarily, but it seems to be what you keep assuming I or anyone else with doubts about any scientific theories is suggesting.