Heaven is a fairy tale, says physicist Hawking

RCG Trader · May 18, 2011

Quote from Kassz007:

That is great for you. But surely you can understand why an atheist would think you are crazy when you try to present this as evidence of god.

Yes, absolutely. I cannot present evidence. Evidence must be acquired. It is no accident that many threads on this trading website focus around what is real and what is not. Non-successful traders will never believe that successful traders exist. Too much mental trauma.

A higher power suggests that you are more than the sum of your parts. For some, that is too much.

omegapoint · May 18, 2011

Its what I like about the eastern approach to investigations of truth, their parables are understood to be taken as metaphor.

Quote from pescador:

One should emphasize though that everything mentioned in this thread as "religion" refers exclusively to the religions originating from Judaism.
In all kinds of these religions, including Christianity and Islam, the existence of a creator god and of creation is a dogma, an unchangeable, undiscutable tenet.

This is why they are fundamentally incompatible with science in general, and the scientific approach in particular.

Buddhism for example on the other hand is perfectly compatible with science, with the theory of evolution, and has no need at all neither for a dogma of creation, nor for a creator, not even for a god at all.

Buddhism has taught for thousands of years that all phenomena, the whole universe appear spontaneously from emptyness.

Quite similar actually to what Hawkings says.

So not all religions are the same.

Kassz007 · May 18, 2011

Quote from RCG Trader:

It is hubris to believe that all we see, touch, smell, hear, and taste is all there is,when our animals can tell us when earthquakes are coming, where there are bombs, etc. It is silly to think you have it all put together.

I can appreciate this fact, and I KNOW that I haven't put it all together, and I KNOW I never will.

My problem is understanding how someone who admittedly doesn't know what the fuck is going on out there, can believe in god?

I guess you could say I put the existence of everything in the universe into probabilities. Something I can touch, feel, hear, smell, hold in my hands etc. I would assign a 100% probability that it exists. Something I cannot, would be assigned a very low probability of existing, such as god or the supernatural.

RCG Trader · May 18, 2011

Quote from Free Thinker:

i have been where you are. i was a believer for most of my life. i cant assure you that you will be able to throw off your mental bondage but i hope for your sake you have the courage to do it.

You are angry FT. And don't mean that in an Oprah sense. I have followed your posts with interest. A lot of what you followed for a majority of your life you have falsified, much like Captain Obvious. I cannot pass any kind of judgement, as I would not be qualified to do so, but I would have to ask, how do you know beyond a considerable doubt that there is no higher power? Notice I did not say Yahweh, or Allah, etc.

How do you know, for certain, that all you perceive, is all there is?

Kassz007 · May 18, 2011

Quote from jem:

you really do not get it do you?

There is no proof of even one other universe.... it is speculation based on string theory... which says there could be almost infinite other universes.

The evidence these and other top scientists cite indicates our universe (the only one we have proof of) appears extraordinarily designed. But theses scientists choose to continue research into explanations for why the appearance of design exists.

That is what scientists do, its good for us.
We would not expect them to stop and say... ah... the universe is designed.

I openly admit that I, nor anyone, really knows for sure.

My question is why is your default position to believe in god? Is it not, at the very least, equally as possible that almost infinite universes exist as there is a god who created this whole shebang? Why do you automatically dismiss the claim that almost infinite other universes exist, or any other scientific theory as to how the universe came to be?

Kassz007 · May 18, 2011

Quote from RCG Trader:

Yes, absolutely. I cannot present evidence. Evidence must be acquired. It is no accident that many threads on this trading website focus around what is real and what is not. Non-successful traders will never believe that successful traders exist. Too much mental trauma.

A higher power suggests that you are more than the sum of your parts. For some, that is too much.

What you're saying to me makes absolutely no sense. It might ring true with someone else, but personally I cannot make sense of your argument.

To me, it sounds like you are saying you believe in god because you don't really know what's out there, and you think you've experienced some sort of miracle(s) in your life, and that I will inevitably experience the same sort of miracle and come to realize that god exists. This makes no sense to me.

But I thank you for attempting to explain your reasoning. I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree on this one.

shortie · May 18, 2011

Quote from Kassz007:

...
My problem is understanding how someone who admittedly doesn't know what the fuck is going on out there, can believe in god?

...

it is better to err on the safe side. even if there is an outside chance that God exists and will buttf*k the unbelievers before or after their death, why risk it?

RCG Trader · May 18, 2011

Quote from Kassz007:

I can appreciate this fact, and I KNOW that I haven't put it all together, and I KNOW I never will.

My problem is understanding how someone who admittedly doesn't know what the fuck is going on out there, can believe in god?

I guess you could say I put the existence of everything in the universe into probabilities. Something I can touch, feel, hear, smell, hold in my hands etc. I would assign a 100% probability that it exists. Something I cannot, would be assigned a very low probability of existing, such as god or the supernatural.

Understood, but your probabilities are based on what you perceive as a known data set. U might want to ask LTCM about that.

Kassz007 · May 18, 2011

Quote from RCG Trader:

How do you know, for certain, that all you perceive, is all there is?

We don't know. Again, that is the point. But the fact that we don't know if all we perceive is all there is should not mean that the default position is to believe in a higher power. This is false logic if you ask me.

Innocent until proven guilty.
Does not exist until proven it exists.

Kassz007 · May 18, 2011

Quote from shortie:

it is better to err on the safe side. even if there is an outside chance that God exists and will buttf*k the unbelievers before or after their death, why risk it?

This is the best post you've ever made, my short friend. And I truly think this is why many religious people believe in god. In their heart they know the concept is absurd, but on that outside chance it isn't, they believe "just in case".