Health Insurers cutting their own throat

[HelloDollar]

Quote from twoheeldrive:

So, there is only one health insurer for the entire state of CA? I doubt it. No one is forcing her to buy health insurance. Self insurance is completely possible, I know many people who pay for their own care. Student health care is a viable option.

If more people refused to participate in the Health Care "Oligopoly", as you describe it, then it would collapse under its own weight.

But then u whine and bitch if an insurer won't allow you to transfer risk on the cheap?

You sound like a duplicitous idiot. On one hand "you need 5mil to self insure" but on the other hand you think insurance companies should write open ended policies for $79 a month. LMFAO. Or maybe Big Brother can insure you for $79 a month. Then what? Add to the 13 trillion deficit even more?

There's always a third option. Self insure but deny yourself treatment. I know that agnostics-I read a few of your "God" posts-are afraid of death but how about actually sucking it up and saying, "I've lived long enough, I accept that it's over. I don't need someone to give me a new $600,000 kidney at age 61." That's where Universal Health will eventually take us anyways. So yes, at some point there will be "death panels."

 

[bigarrow]

Quote from HelloDollar:

But then u whine and bitch if an insurer won't allow you to transfer risk on the cheap?

You sound like a duplicitous idiot. On one hand "you need 5mil to self insure" but on the other hand you think insurance companies should write open ended policies for $79 a month. LMFAO. Or maybe Big Brother can insure you for $79 a month. Then what? Add to the 13 trillion deficit even more?

There's always a third option. Self insure but deny yourself treatment. I know that agnostics-I read a few of your "God" posts-are afraid of death but how about actually sucking it up and saying, "I've lived long enough, I accept that it's over. I don't need someone to give me a new $600,000 kidney at age 61." That's where Universal Health will eventually take us anyways. So yes, at some point there will be "death panels."

"duplicitous idiot" good one

"On one hand "you need 5mil to self insure" but on the other hand you think insurance companies should write open ended policies for $79 a month"
you don't understand how insurance works do you?

"I know that agnostics-I read a few of your "God" posts-are afraid of death"
Religious people are the ones terrified of death.

"I don't need someone to give me a new $600,000 kidney at age 61."
61 isn't old, you could have another 30 years left man, don't be too negative on yourself.

Good luck with your kidney problems.

But you're missing the whole point of the thread. It isn't that health insurance is expensive. It is that the insurance companies have to answer to no one when raising rates or denying coverage. You get the letter that cost have increased but no documentation whatsoever to prove it. And if you happen to have a pre-existing condition then you are screwed. And the current set up is stopping people from getting the health care they need because when they go to the doctor, boom they have a pre-existing condition and are stuck with their current insurer. I have been putting off getting a checkup just for that very reason. And yes I am paying my own health insurance premiums and shopping. It is scary and it is not a good system, the consumer, the person who buys only for themselves and their family or a small company is between a rock and a hard place. I know you don't get it and hopefully you won't have to learn by experience like the rest of us have.

 

[twoheeldrive]

Quote from HelloDollar:

But then u whine and bitch if an insurer won't allow you to transfer risk on the cheap?

You sound like a duplicitous idiot. On one hand "you need 5mil to self insure" but on the other hand you think insurance companies should write open ended policies for $79 a month. LMFAO. Or maybe Big Brother can insure you for $79 a month. Then what? Add to the 13 trillion deficit even more?

There's always a third option. Self insure but deny yourself treatment. I know that agnostics-I read a few of your "God" posts-are afraid of death but how about actually sucking it up and saying, "I've lived long enough, I accept that it's over. I don't need someone to give me a new $600,000 kidney at age 61." That's where Universal Health will eventually take us anyways. So yes, at some point there will be "death panels."

Are you partaking of medical marijuana? You have me confused with someone else. I never put a $$ figure on the cost to self insure nor did I give any details about policy cost. And why bring God into the argument?

And by the way... ponder this, EVERYONE self insures when it comes to healthcare. A 20% co-pay and a lifetime maximum payout cost real money. Money that can push INSURED people into bankruptcy. How’s that for a buzz killer? And that “gift" kidney’s going to cost you $120,000.

Take another hit... you'll feel better.

 

[HelloDollar]

I'm new to this forum-I meant to quote another post, vhen or some screen name like that. Sorry about the confusion.

Not everyone has a co-pay (and most hospitals will discount the co-pay amount). Depends on your coverage. And while I've never priced a kidney, I know the little girl of a friend burnt through 900k in kidney related treatments.

The point is, an insurance co-op (the Utopian standard) is zero-sum. Government sponsored advocates are the ones smoking pot. If America files 2 trillion in claims but is only willing to pay 1 trillion in premiums then someone (i.e. taxpayers) will need to eat the shortfall. And given that at this exact moment, a special Obama appointed 'task force" is convening to figure out a solution to the inevitability of Social Security and Medicare bankrupting us-despite around 17% of most peoples earnings being dedicated to those entitlements-it seems foolhardy to think that a public option is fiscally doable.

No matter how you slice it, those with preconditions, those who can't afford basic health coverage are asking for a handout.

We keep hearing, "people are losing their homes because they're uninsured." Here's a solution: Sell your friggin house, rent an apartment and pay for your own policy.

People lose their homes and savings due to joblessness. Or trading/business losses. Or even divorces. Not to mention substance abuse. Why is a chronically ill person, considered to be, an exempt from hardship, sacred cow? No OTHER money problem gets you sympathy.

There's winners and losers in life and it's not the governments role to be the arbiter. Unless, like i say, they want to arbitrate ALL of life's inequities.

Quote from twoheeldrive:

Are you partaking of medical marijuana? You have me confused with someone else. I never put a $$ figure on the cost to self insure nor did I give any details about policy cost. And why bring God into the argument?

And by the way... ponder this, EVERYONE self insures when it comes to healthcare. A 20% co-pay and a lifetime maximum payout cost real money. Money that can push INSURED people into bankruptcy. How’s that for a buzz killer? And that “gift" kidney’s going to cost you $120,000.

Take another hit... you'll feel better.

 

[Buzzed]

Quote from HelloDollar:

I think given the risk, health insurance premiums are pretty cheap.

Would YOU be willing for a grand a year in revenue, to payout a half million dollars if that 21 yo is in a motorcycle accident or shot? I wouldn't. And yes even 21 year old people can require expensive operations. So for basically the cost of a night out drinking each month an insurer covers you for a million bucks. Pretty good deal.

The operations are only expensive because they are funded by health insurance, liability insurance, medicare, medicaid, taxes, monopoly protections, and student loans. If none of these things were funding medical care, medical care would be a hell of alot more affordable.

 

[fkbsuhites]

What we've had in the past 3 decades is a net increase in retards and a net decrease in smart educated individuals.

The illiterate trailer trash imbeciles each have multiple kids while the educated smart couples have 1 or at most 2.

These animals breed like rabbits without a thought on how they will cloth and feed their brood.

And the jesus-freak infestation is going to get worse. Look at Palin, breeding well into her 40's. Retarded baby and all. Yes, I can say her kid is retarded because she is ok with limbaugh calling her kid a retard. Look at Palins daughter. Another breeder.

The national IQ is moving lower at an exponential rate as smart couples stop having kids and these breeders keep multiplying faster than rabbits

Quote from Lethn:



All the religious nutters and war mongerers came out of the woodwork and an outsider hit their walls hard enough.

 

[piezoe]

Quote from Buzzed:

The operations are only expensive because they are funded by health insurance, liability insurance, medicare, medicaid, taxes, monopoly protections, and student loans. If none of these things were funding medical care, medical care would be a hell of alot more affordable.

To paraphrase Betty Davis: "But they do exist, Buzzed."

 

[piezoe]

Quote from HelloDollar:

I'm new to this forum-I meant to quote another post, vhen or some screen name like that. Sorry about the confusion.

Not everyone has a co-pay (and most hospitals will discount the co-pay amount). Depends on your coverage. And while I've never priced a kidney, I know the little girl of a friend burnt through 900k in kidney related treatments.

The point is, an insurance co-op (the Utopian standard) is zero-sum. Government sponsored advocates are the ones smoking pot. If America files 2 trillion in claims but is only willing to pay 1 trillion in premiums then someone (i.e. taxpayers) will need to eat the shortfall. And given that at this exact moment, a special Obama appointed 'task force" is convening to figure out a solution to the inevitability of Social Security and Medicare bankrupting us-despite around 17% of most peoples earnings being dedicated to those entitlements-it seems foolhardy to think that a public option is fiscally doable.

No matter how you slice it, those with preconditions, those who can't afford basic health coverage are asking for a handout.

We keep hearing, "people are losing their homes because they're uninsured." Here's a solution: Sell your friggin house, rent an apartment and pay for your own policy.

People lose their homes and savings due to joblessness. Or trading/business losses. Or even divorces. Not to mention substance abuse. Why is a chronically ill person, considered to be, an exempt from hardship, sacred cow? No OTHER money problem gets you sympathy.

There's winners and losers in life and it's not the governments role to be the arbiter. Unless, like i say, they want to arbitrate ALL of life's inequities.

Just one small correction of facts. Social Security is not bankrupting the US. It is the other way round. The US is bankrupting Social Security. Social Security is based on actuarial calculation and needs only very minor tweaking to account for changing demographics. It can easily be made sound into the foreseeable future from an actuarial standpoint. But the US borrowed from the social security trust fund and now has no way to pay the fund the money it is owed without borrowing more. If the government defaults on its debt to the Social Security system, it will bankrupt the system. This is unlikely. What is likely, however, is that the government's fiscal irresponsibility will require evermore borrowing and that will lead, via inevitable monetization of the debt, to inflation that is not entirely accounted for in the core inflation number. This will result in social security recipients being cheated.

By they way, many people, not just you, think that Social Security is bankrupting the US. There are many who are philosophically opposed to the very idea of SS. You might be one of them! They, and Wall Street, are the ones largely responsible for spreading this false information.

Medicare is a different kettle of fish however. Its problems are of an entirely different nature than Social Security's.

I have no comment on the remainder of your post. That's your opinion.

 

[failed_trad3r]

Quote from HelloDollar:

I'm new to this forum-I meant to quote another post, vhen or some screen name like that. Sorry about the confusion.

Not everyone has a co-pay (and most hospitals will discount the co-pay amount). Depends on your coverage. And while I've never priced a kidney, I know the little girl of a friend burnt through 900k in kidney related treatments.

The point is, an insurance co-op (the Utopian standard) is zero-sum. Government sponsored advocates are the ones smoking pot. If America files 2 trillion in claims but is only willing to pay 1 trillion in premiums then someone (i.e. taxpayers) will need to eat the shortfall. And given that at this exact moment, a special Obama appointed 'task force" is convening to figure out a solution to the inevitability of Social Security and Medicare bankrupting us-despite around 17% of most peoples earnings being dedicated to those entitlements-it seems foolhardy to think that a public option is fiscally doable.

No matter how you slice it, those with preconditions, those who can't afford basic health coverage are asking for a handout.

We keep hearing, "people are losing their homes because they're uninsured." Here's a solution: Sell your friggin house, rent an apartment and pay for your own policy.

People lose their homes and savings due to joblessness. Or trading/business losses. Or even divorces. Not to mention substance abuse. Why is a chronically ill person, considered to be, an exempt from hardship, sacred cow? No OTHER money problem gets you sympathy.

There's winners and losers in life and it's not the governments role to be the arbiter. Unless, like i say, they want to arbitrate ALL of life's inequities.

The point is claims of 2 trillion, and payments of 1 trillion, lead to shortage not of 1 trillion, but of 1.5 trillion in the current situation.

The reason is that insurance companies are on the stock markets and want to need profit, and keep raising rates for the sole purpose of profit. The reason is that there is no competition because of pre-existing conditions. The free market, works, but not in near monopoly markets. In this case, the free market utopia is much more dangerous than the universal healthcare utopia.

 

[twoheeldrive]

Quote from fkbsuhites:

What we've had in the past 3 decades is a net increase in retards and a net decrease in smart educated individuals.

The illiterate trailer trash imbeciles each have multiple kids while the educated smart couples have 1 or at most 2.

These animals breed like rabbits without a thought on how they will cloth and feed their brood.

And the jesus-freak infestation is going to get worse. Look at Palin, breeding well into her 40's. Retarded baby and all. Yes, I can say her kid is retarded because she is ok with limbaugh calling her kid a retard. Look at Palins daughter. Another breeder.

The national IQ is moving lower at an exponential rate as smart couples stop having kids and these breeders keep multiplying faster than rabbits

You don't spend much time in the 'hood do you? The 'hood is the epitome of unbridled breeding.