Have you used dbphoenix's teachings to become a successful trader?

[VPhantom]

This is quite the interesting find VP. Given Db's massive 15,000 posts, I have no idea how you found it... or how you even knew these two original threads existed!

I think I stumbled on an introductory thread somewhere, which pointed out the most interesting other threads out there. I wish I remembered where... Anyway that's how I found out Keeping It Simple and Keeping It Simple II. The TL Wyckoff ones are often referenced though and most important, as that's where the 3 PDFs (2 original Wyckoff and 1 SLA-AMT from @dbphoenix ) and some in-depth discussion are located. Finally the 2013 thread, again I saw it referenced somewhere as being a good example in the August/September area because it saw @fortydraws 's mastery of AMT blossom profitably.

I'm just quickly browsing them right now, and I find it very interesting how much things have changed for him.

I think basically he started out around 2002 with what's more or less the "SLA", and gradually dove into full Wyckoff supply and demand in the following years, which makes entries much more personal and less mechanical to each tape reader.

In reference to a question about how Db "handles the premarket data??" ... his reply was that he didn't.

Let's remember the historical context: the NQ, for example, had much less overnight activity in 2003 compared to now. In fact it exploded only a few years ago if memory serves, with Asians becoming interested in trading on the CME around/after the credit crisis. So it makes sense that its usefulness may have changed as well.

 

[VPhantom]

VPhantom, I'm going to quote the above in my journal - thanks for putting this together.

Glad something useful came out of that.

And listen to me - Don't sweat the trolls. I let a few of them get to me early on also. It truly isn't worth it. [...] Do not feel that you need to defend yourself to anyone. [...] Focus on the task at hand, not internet combat. It is the most ridiculous waste of human talent and energy and time when used for that purpose. Read, study, observe, and learn, and when you find yourself doing better than you could ever have imagined, pay it forward.

Yup, I fully agree. I do engage a bit because I enjoy the effort of formulating my thoughts more clearly, which the forum requires. I feel it helps my own journey (if nothing else, my English skills) so I see it as an educational opportunity. I also like to give each side its fair chance, which is why I ask questions whenever something isn't obvious to me, such as here today (before it strangely derailed into name calling towards me, by two different people!) and last week with @marketsurfer (who may simply not have noticed my questions - time will tell).

Don't worry I'm now reaping the full benefit of that "Ignore" button, because it indeed was now getting to me in a emotionally destructive way; I just wanted to give him/her a fair chance to come up with useful information. Oh well.

 

[VPhantom]

@k p: I forgot to add, in the "If you can draw a straight line..." thread, the dead-last post serves as kind of a sticky to point to the juiciest posts therein:

http://www.elitetrader.com/et/index...-a-straight-line.276076/page-116#post-3901369

 

[k p]

@k p: I forgot to add, in the "If you can draw a straight line..." thread, the dead-last post serves as kind of a sticky to point to the juiciest posts therein:

http://www.elitetrader.com/et/index...-a-straight-line.276076/page-116#post-3901369

Oh yes.. I'm very much up to speed on all the current stuff.

Its interesting that in those old threads, he actually talks quite a bit about the trades he took and the ones he didn't which makes it a bit more tangible if you ask me. In a few places, he actually mentions how many trades worked for him and how many didn't, which also is more insightful.

Take his recent comment on the 18th where he said that "now we switch to SLA" in 40D's journal. I mark on this chart with the blue arrow where the comment was made, and show possible entries via the green arrows that looked good once price broke above, and stayed above, the overnight high of 4390. Who knows, maybe he made an earlier entry once we broke about the PDH, the green line, at 4388. But as you can see, price dropped shortly there after, so I doubt the long could have been held.

I don't know... I think I learn more by seeing what people do rather than what they say. But not a single trader here at ET has yet a to show even a few days worth of trades, so it makes me really question what they do if you can't even see that they are in fact trading the way they say is a good way to trade.

Even as I'm finishing up those old threads now, its obvious that he has a set of rules that he outlines, but in addition to this is another whole set of rules that tell him when to break these rules, but these are more in the form of instincts acquired over the years. This is the type of thing that a person could see if they were presented with trades taken, not just a rough sketch of what the general trading plan is.

I think that if any trader here was to share their trading plan, and then they showed their trades, I doubt someone intelligent enough to follow the plan could replicate the exact same trades taken. Each trader simply has too many filters that are in the brain, but not in the trading plan, and this therefore makes listening to anyone else almost not that useful.

 

[Gringo]

I think that if any trader here was to share their trading plan, and then they showed their trades, I doubt someone intelligent enough to follow the plan could replicate the exact same trades taken. Each trader simply has too many filters that are in the brain, but not in the trading plan, and this therefore makes listening to anyone else almost not that useful.

Seriously? I can accept there can be a few differences but generally a plan's a plan. It tells one precisely what to do after a few check marks have been ticked. Price moves up and down in various ways but a bounce around support is a bounce around support. There aren't two ways about it.

Notice how your brain is again making something like a plan seem overwhelming and even unnecessary. With 'too many' filters mentality it's easier for you to just brush it aside and move towards reading more and more threads than doing the work. Even in my previous posts regarding you I had highlighted the same issue where you mentioned that there's too much work involved and it will all go to waste if at the end it turned out it wasn't viable.

Somehow, somewhere you got terrified of the idea of doing the work. Reading tonnes of threads when you can just read the original course again and do some test driving with price and just enjoying the process can cure many ills. Reading threads seem to me as an escape for you to think you're doing something while giving the illusion of work. The MIND is your barrier, not price, not other traders, not anything else. Your own mind. Take that step from passive reading to doing the work.

Gringo

 

[k p]

Seriously? I can accept there can be a few differences but generally a plan's a plan. It tells one precisely what to do after a few check marks have been ticked. Price moves up and down in various ways but a bounce around support is a bounce around support. There aren't two ways about it.

Notice how your brain is again making something like a plan seem overwhelming and even unnecessary. With 'too many' filters mentality it's easier for you to just brush it aside and move towards reading more and more threads than doing the work. Even in my previous posts regarding you I had highlighted the same issue where you mentioned that there's too much work involved and it will all go to waste if at the end it turned out it wasn't worth it. You'll have to re-do the work and go through the process again.

Somehow, somewhere you got terrified of the idea of doing the work. Reading tonnes of threads when you can just read the original course again and do some test driving can cure many ills. Reading threads seem to me as an escape for you to think you're doing something and are busy while passively reading. The MIND is your barrier, not price, not other traders, not anything else. Your own mind.

Gringo

Aye... ok... here we go!

First of all.. there is no work to do with SLA... rules are rules. You quickly realize that in real time, drawing the lines isn't as easy, since you don't know where the next swing point will be, or if what looks to be the swing point is actually the main swing point. So sure, then you start testing, but this testing leads you to draw lines your way, perhaps which isn't the same as the way Db would draw them, and hence SLA is backtested for someone else.

Second, I asked Db before about a possible RET entry on a chart, and his reply was that if my testing told me that its ok to enter that late once price has moved up so far, then its my choice. So if I'm using a trading plan, why do I even have a choice? There should be no choice in real time that isn't already outlined in the trading plan!

Third, Db has recently made quite a bit of references to the ES, and surprisingly, he has said this same thing in these threads from 2002/2003. But there is no rule in SLA that says I have to check with the ES first before I take a trade because the NQ can often lag the ES.

Listen Gringo, I'm not looking to argue. If this thread was started by Db, I wouldn't come in here and cause trouble. But this thread is about Db, started by someone else, so I can share my opinion, and my opinion is that this trading game is way more complex than a simple set of rules. Just the fact that Db states that a person has to backtest, it shows that there are far too many decisions a traders has to decide for himself, preferably ahead of time of course. Once you change just one variable, you're starting at the bottom when it comes to testing.

I enjoy your posts in your journals, and although you use SLA as a guide, your most recent post even stated that you might get out of your position that you took in GDXJ. Is this because of a line break? No! You're saying that demand hasn't shown up and that the trade went sour right away which isn't a good sign. Where in the SLA manual is this? You're probably bang on... and you're probably right... but this decision doesn't come from a rule. Do you have a rule that states to exit a trade if it doesn't go "x" amount in the first few hours? I doubt it, and I'm sure you developed more of a feel.

So although you can take the same position that Db has taken which is to criticize and say I'm not doing the work, this does in fact then prove that there is lots of work to do, way beyond what the SLA/AMT PDF would suggest.

 

[Gringo]

Aye... ok... here we go!

First of all.. there is no work to do with SLA... rules are rules. You quickly realize that in real time, drawing the lines isn't as easy, since you don't know where the next swing point will be, or if what looks to be the swing point is actually the main swing point. So sure, then you start testing, but this testing leads you to draw lines your way, perhaps which isn't the same as the way Db would draw them, and hence SLA is backtested for someone else.

Second, I asked Db before about a possible RET entry on a chart, and his reply was that if my testing told me that its ok to enter that late once price has moved up so far, then its my choice. So if I'm using a trading plan, why do I even have a choice? There should be no choice in real time that isn't already outlined in the trading plan!

Third, Db has recently made quite a bit of references to the ES, and surprisingly, he has said this same thing in these threads from 2002/2003. But there is no rule in SLA that says I have to check with the ES first before I take a trade because the NQ can often lag the ES.

Listen Gringo, I'm not looking to argue. If this thread was started by Db, I wouldn't come in here and cause trouble. But this thread is about Db, started by someone else, so I can share my opinion, and my opinion is that this trading game is way more complex than a simple set of rules. Just the fact that Db states that a person has to backtest, it shows that there are far too many decisions a traders has to decide for himself, preferably ahead of time of course. Once you change just one variable, you're starting at the bottom when it comes to testing.

I enjoy your posts in your journals, and although you use SLA as a guide, your most recent post even stated that you might get out of your position that you took in GDXJ. Is this because of a line break? No! You're saying that demand hasn't shown up and that the trade went sour right away which isn't a good sign. Where in the SLA manual is this? You're probably bang on... and you're probably right... but this decision doesn't come from a rule. Do you have a rule that states to exit a trade if it doesn't go "x" amount in the first few hours? I doubt it, and I'm sure you developed more of a feel.

So although you can take the same position that Db has taken which is to criticize and say I'm not doing the work, this does in fact then prove that there is lots of work to do, way beyond what the SLA/AMT PDF would suggest.

KP,

I would like to answer more thoroughly but notice the questions you're asking. They are very intelligent questions. Again, SLA is training wheels. It has gotten you to notice things that a trader who pays attention to price behavior must. It's a sign something is going through the head and it's not all bad. In our previous conversation you had identified something valuable and I had asked you to do some testing. Now you have asked quite a few good questions that require testing. Specific questions about my entry you could have asked in my thread. I do get tired of talking to myself over there you know.

Gringo

 

[k p]

Specific questions about my entry you could have asked in my thread. I do get tired of talking to myself over there you know.

LOL... talking to yourself is ok from what I hear... the problem is when you start hearing voices thinking that someone else is answering when they really aren't!

I don't really have specific questions to be honest. Your reasons for what you do are your own, based on your own testing, your own tolerance for pain, your own everything. I just wanted to point out that, as I have said in the past about 40D as well, nobody is trading SLA. Heck, even Db made a post over at TL where he stated that trading SLA intraday was tough and that he'd do a series of charts illustrating it on a higher time frame.

Thanks for acknowledging that I'm asking good questions. You are certainly right that I keep coming back to these posts as a distraction because everything I test just doesn't work well enough and there are just contradictions everywhere! So I need a bit of a break sometimes...

Anyway... back to laying low. See you at the next scuffle!

 

[Ditch]

How about yours? Can anyone provide evidence that you have done anything for them?

What is it with this master-student fetish of yours? It is really creepy.

 

[Ditch]

Are you serious? With the quality of my posts here thus far, especially compared to your drivel? .

Well, well, well, our little student goes mental. Thanks for the laugh. The only "quality" you have provided so far, was demanding to be spoonfed. But that is becoming rather typical for your generation.

http://www.elitetrader.com/et/index...rtheless-think-theyll-be-millionaires.289608/

The "everyone gets a prize generation is doing just great! lol. Never before has the discrepancy between self confidence and actual accomplishments been so large.""
"Millennials are either impressively optimistic or blissfully ignorant."