Have the "rich" been enslaved by the poor?
- Thread starter axeman
- Start date
LOL, you think you (we) are enslaved now? You ain't seen squat yet. The government (fed, state and local) is spending money like there is no tomorrow, and the voting public thinks they need to spend much more, much faster. And the voters will fire anybody who does not.
Meanwhile, the largest generation this country has ever seen is also the most in debt, the most unprepared for retirement, perhaps the most selfish, and certainly the most connected is approaching their years of not working (AKA retirement). It's easy to figure out what they will want, and reduced benefits of any kind is not a part of it.
It won't be long when we will wish for these days in nostalgia. "We didn't know how good we had it back then" will be a common lament. The only way I can see to produce the revenue our huge, bloated, excessive, out-of-constitutional-control government will need, is to institute a wealth tax. It'll start off small, just .1% of one's wealth over a million or something - a pittance to pretty much everybody. Most folks will think "Yeah, I'll be getting something from the rich guys" and be in favor of it (thus proving a central theme of Scott Adams - that people are idiots). This is how the income tax started - a "Soak The Rich" scheme.
And like the income tax, it will become a significant burden. You see, it is the destiny of democracies to spend themselves dizzy (more or less a quote from PJ O'Rourke). And we're gonna get mighty dizzy before it's all over.
I forget the author, but somebody I never heard of before said something like:
"A democracy can only survive until it's populace discovers they can vote themselves largess out of the public coffers."
Of course, the government is theoretically limited by the constitution. But we've seen how little that matters to people. As a matter of fact, most people cannot even be bothered to read this short document, let alone try to understand it. I remember the last presidential election, the local paper quoted one person as saying something to the effect of "I voted because black people had fought long and hard for the right to vote. I don't know the difference between the candidates, I just hope they are all qualified."
Basically what I am saying is that we will have higher taxes, and we will have deserved them.
Meanwhile, the largest generation this country has ever seen is also the most in debt, the most unprepared for retirement, perhaps the most selfish, and certainly the most connected is approaching their years of not working (AKA retirement). It's easy to figure out what they will want, and reduced benefits of any kind is not a part of it.
It won't be long when we will wish for these days in nostalgia. "We didn't know how good we had it back then" will be a common lament. The only way I can see to produce the revenue our huge, bloated, excessive, out-of-constitutional-control government will need, is to institute a wealth tax. It'll start off small, just .1% of one's wealth over a million or something - a pittance to pretty much everybody. Most folks will think "Yeah, I'll be getting something from the rich guys" and be in favor of it (thus proving a central theme of Scott Adams - that people are idiots). This is how the income tax started - a "Soak The Rich" scheme.
And like the income tax, it will become a significant burden. You see, it is the destiny of democracies to spend themselves dizzy (more or less a quote from PJ O'Rourke). And we're gonna get mighty dizzy before it's all over.
I forget the author, but somebody I never heard of before said something like:
"A democracy can only survive until it's populace discovers they can vote themselves largess out of the public coffers."
Of course, the government is theoretically limited by the constitution. But we've seen how little that matters to people. As a matter of fact, most people cannot even be bothered to read this short document, let alone try to understand it. I remember the last presidential election, the local paper quoted one person as saying something to the effect of "I voted because black people had fought long and hard for the right to vote. I don't know the difference between the candidates, I just hope they are all qualified."
Basically what I am saying is that we will have higher taxes, and we will have deserved them.
Alright, who of the enslaved rich here would rather be on welfare, live in a housing project, go to a city hospital when sick, pay with food stamps, etc?
Any takers?
Who pays 50% anyway? Better get a new accountant. You could make 10 million and not pay that much, legally
How about public education. Lots of low income bums send their kids to public school. Should we privatize education? If my kids are in private school, I don't want to pay for your stupid kids' education. And I know they are stupid. In the genes see. I want a voucher.
How about Police? Most of that budget gets spent on policing the underclass. White trash and gangbangers. We know that.
How about the farmer - individual and corporate. Let's drop the subsidies. Fuck em, let the market rule. Africa will be the biggest exporter in 10 years. 1/2 of Africans will be dead of AIDS anyway, their farms will need caterpillars and ADM can take em over. THe other 1/2 will be fighting civil wars.
How about all these old fucks - your father and grandfather too -who can't pay tier medical bills and get subsidized by state and local govts. I have enough trouble paying for my medical bills, I don't want to support your grandma cuz she didn't save for her old age. Fuck her. Goddamn mooching 85 year old bitch. You pay her bills. Old bitch. Living too long anyway.
And how about those dumb fucks who can't get a job and join the Army. We know most of them are pukes who couldn't pass 400 on their SATs. More welfare. Cept now sortta, that they are fighting in the Middle East.
Let the other countries pay more on defense. 20 trillion since WW2? Sheeeeeit!
Privatize all
1) health, get sick, pay the bill. Yo grandma, you pay.
2) fire, house is burning, pay the man on arrival
3) transportation, roads, traffic control. Pay the operator of the road.
4) Police. You getting raped or mugged? Get rescued. Get a bill in the mail
5) Schools. Pay the bill. The Poet down the street making no money. Better not have kids.
"Alright, who of the enslaved rich here would rather be on welfare, live in a housing project, go to a city hospital when sick, pay with food stamps, etc?
Any takers?"
None. So what is your point?
They deserve half my money just because I don't want to be them?
Or maybe that since I made good decisions, and they made crappy
decisions, they should get the fruits of my labor?
"Who pays 50% anyway? Better get a new accountant. You could make 10 million and not pay that much, legally "
I do. During my better years, my Fed + Cali state ALONE were
about 50% of my gross. In case you haven't noticed, the legal
tax loopholes have been closed for years.
My taxes are TRIVIAL. There is nothing to deduct legally.
Add in all the other taxes and you get over 60% in no time.
"How about public education. Lots of low income bums send their kids to public school. Should we privatize education? If my kids are in private school, I don't want to pay for your stupid kids' education. And I know they are stupid. In the genes see. I want a voucher. "
Don't really have a strong opinion on this.
I don't have kids and don't plan to. But the vast majority do,
so this is close enough to a shared pool. I can live with it.
"How about Police? Most of that budget gets spent on policing the underclass. White trash and gangbangers. We know that."
Not true. Take a look at a tax pie chart. Police are not a big cost.
"How about the farmer - individual and corporate. Let's drop the subsidies. Fuck em, let the market rule. Africa will be the biggest exporter in 10 years. 1/2 of Africans will be dead of AIDS anyway, their farms will need caterpillars and ADM can take em over. THe other 1/2 will be fighting civil wars."
Fine by me. The free market SHOULD rule.
"How about all these old fucks - your father and grandfather too -who can't pay tier medical bills and get subsidized by state and local govts. I have enough trouble paying for my medical bills, I don't want to support your grandma cuz she didn't save for her old age. Fuck her. Goddamn mooching 85 year old bitch. You pay her bills. Old bitch. Living too long anyway."
I agree with you, even if you are being sarcastic.
Why should you have to pay for a strangers medical bill
they can't afford?
Is it my fault when someone doesn't plan well for themselves
and comes up short in the end and can't afford their own medical
expenses?
Let me get this straight. THEY screwed themselves, so I should
be robbed to pay for THEIR mistakes??? I think not.
"And how about those dumb fucks who can't get a job and join the Army. We know most of them are pukes who couldn't pass 400 on their SATs. More welfare. Cept now sortta, that they are fighting in the Middle East."
I think they are earning their pay.
At least they are DOING something. Maybe not.
I withold my opinion actually. I haven't done my homework on this.
"Privatize all
1) health, get sick, pay the bill. Yo grandma, you pay.
2) fire, house is burning, pay the man on arrival
3) transportation, roads, traffic control. Pay the operator of the road.
4) Police. You getting raped or mugged? Get rescued. Get a bill in the mail
5) Schools. Pay the bill. The Poet down the street making no money. Better not have kids. "
Sounds like INDIVIDUAL RESPONSIBILITY to me. Sounds like
the most fair system you could devise.
Although a little too simple. Individuals could still purchase
INSURANCE for things like fire,health, transportation, etc...
But it would be a hell of a lot cheaper for the people who work and are willing to PAY for it, since they don't also have to support
a pool of people who are abusing the system.
peace
axeman
Any takers?"
None. So what is your point?
They deserve half my money just because I don't want to be them?
Or maybe that since I made good decisions, and they made crappy
decisions, they should get the fruits of my labor?
"Who pays 50% anyway? Better get a new accountant. You could make 10 million and not pay that much, legally "
I do. During my better years, my Fed + Cali state ALONE were
about 50% of my gross. In case you haven't noticed, the legal
tax loopholes have been closed for years.
My taxes are TRIVIAL. There is nothing to deduct legally.
Add in all the other taxes and you get over 60% in no time.
"How about public education. Lots of low income bums send their kids to public school. Should we privatize education? If my kids are in private school, I don't want to pay for your stupid kids' education. And I know they are stupid. In the genes see. I want a voucher. "
Don't really have a strong opinion on this.
I don't have kids and don't plan to. But the vast majority do,
so this is close enough to a shared pool. I can live with it.
"How about Police? Most of that budget gets spent on policing the underclass. White trash and gangbangers. We know that."
Not true. Take a look at a tax pie chart. Police are not a big cost.
"How about the farmer - individual and corporate. Let's drop the subsidies. Fuck em, let the market rule. Africa will be the biggest exporter in 10 years. 1/2 of Africans will be dead of AIDS anyway, their farms will need caterpillars and ADM can take em over. THe other 1/2 will be fighting civil wars."
Fine by me. The free market SHOULD rule.
"How about all these old fucks - your father and grandfather too -who can't pay tier medical bills and get subsidized by state and local govts. I have enough trouble paying for my medical bills, I don't want to support your grandma cuz she didn't save for her old age. Fuck her. Goddamn mooching 85 year old bitch. You pay her bills. Old bitch. Living too long anyway."
I agree with you, even if you are being sarcastic.
Why should you have to pay for a strangers medical bill
they can't afford?
Is it my fault when someone doesn't plan well for themselves
and comes up short in the end and can't afford their own medical
expenses?
Let me get this straight. THEY screwed themselves, so I should
be robbed to pay for THEIR mistakes??? I think not.
"And how about those dumb fucks who can't get a job and join the Army. We know most of them are pukes who couldn't pass 400 on their SATs. More welfare. Cept now sortta, that they are fighting in the Middle East."
I think they are earning their pay.
At least they are DOING something. Maybe not.
I withold my opinion actually. I haven't done my homework on this.
"Privatize all
1) health, get sick, pay the bill. Yo grandma, you pay.
2) fire, house is burning, pay the man on arrival
3) transportation, roads, traffic control. Pay the operator of the road.
4) Police. You getting raped or mugged? Get rescued. Get a bill in the mail
5) Schools. Pay the bill. The Poet down the street making no money. Better not have kids. "
Sounds like INDIVIDUAL RESPONSIBILITY to me. Sounds like
the most fair system you could devise.
Although a little too simple. Individuals could still purchase
INSURANCE for things like fire,health, transportation, etc...
But it would be a hell of a lot cheaper for the people who work and are willing to PAY for it, since they don't also have to support
a pool of people who are abusing the system.
peace
axeman
The looming boomer retirement years threaten a crisis. We are squarely in the jaws of a terrible vise--we can't provide the health and custodial care neede but even if we could, we can't afford it. Anyone who has relatives in nursing home care now knows the system can barely cope. Even the best hospitals in many parts of the country can't find nurses. Nursing homes are chronically understaffed. At the same time we have to find a way to pay for social security, medicare and whatever else the politicians dream up.
There is one obvious answer to this demographic black hole: massive immigration. We can import tens of thousands of asian and latino health care workers and use their taxes to pay off our obligations. The other possible ways out include global nuclear war, some sort of new age black death epidemic, forced euthanasia or a lot of people living in very poor circumstances. Drug companies probably face draconian price controls or worse.
All those lavish public sector pensions could become unaffordable, or perhaps your children will simply accept the notion of paying 80% tax rates. Most major employers, like auto companies, will be forced into bankruptcy by pension liabilities. There is already more health care expense than steel in a new car.
Anyone has any answers I'd love to hear them.
There is one obvious answer to this demographic black hole: massive immigration. We can import tens of thousands of asian and latino health care workers and use their taxes to pay off our obligations. The other possible ways out include global nuclear war, some sort of new age black death epidemic, forced euthanasia or a lot of people living in very poor circumstances. Drug companies probably face draconian price controls or worse.
All those lavish public sector pensions could become unaffordable, or perhaps your children will simply accept the notion of paying 80% tax rates. Most major employers, like auto companies, will be forced into bankruptcy by pension liabilities. There is already more health care expense than steel in a new car.
Anyone has any answers I'd love to hear them.
Oh, it's pretty simple. The rich boy's club is simply going to have to pony up.
Not the "rich" by what I am being told is the Democrats' "definition" (or inferred definition), but by the "truly" rich (we can work out a figure). Sure they wouldn't like having to pay it, but, well, they might have to switch to plain wrap caviar but they can afford to pay more, and it will hardly affect their lives at all. I mean, your income going from, say, 1MM to 950k really isn't going to hurt THAT much, obviously.
Yes axe, that is simply "robbing" the rich because they can take it, but, it's, in my opinion, a better alternative than letting a huge bunch of people wilt away in their old age, having outlived their usefulness to anyone.
You know, there is ample evidence out there that c 50% tax rates are viable, and economies can still grow and prosper and people can still get rich. (Oh, wait, that must because of "homogeneous populations", right? No good for nothing niggers and spics, right?) So I just don't see where this idea of "enslavement" comes into it.
It is the Super Riches that enslave both the average riches and the poors through massive public debts that is to say taxes since taxes serve to pay the financial interests to the super riches. The only way to maintain this idiot system against public interest is to divide the average riches against the poors and vice versa. When you will understand that the Super Riches have always been Socialist - for public debt enslaves the State and so give them power - you will reconsider the "true" picture of "reality" and not only the appearance. Remember the philosophers: "Truth is more in the Invisible than in the Visible." These Super Riches through time and new laws have retired the properties from individual entrepreners to put it in the hand of Big Corporates either public or private but it is just a fake illusion of privacy because it is them in both cases that control what they do with the money, the taxes of the Nation. It is them that do the taxes law and they don't care about taxes because they can use offshore, fondations and other means to escape taxes they impose others to support whereas the average riches can't at least without risking being out of law.
It is when the average riches - those who are real entrepreneurs - are destroyed like in 1929 that the economy then really suffers and so the poors. So the riches and the poors should rather unite against the enslavment debt system initiated by the Super Riches instead of fighting each other. But that would be necessary that they do understand how things really work and the virtual reality that is presented to them. And since the medias don't of course do the job of education but propaganda for maintaining such system and division, there is no issue at the moment than it will continue and worsen: taxes can only worsen because the poors will grow and United States should reach the same rate than Europe not only through direct taxes but through indirect ones like social security charges. The businesses of exploiting the poors - as other domains like ecology and security - under the pretext of fake humanitarian rights - can only grow also .
In such system it is impossible to not assist the poors since they can't find enough job, they could if the average riches could create enough jobs instead of the Corporate who only destroy jobs. No assistance to poors imply regiving the right to the riches to create without being taxed like they are and so that the super riches who make the law defend that but that is not their interest their interest is to maintain the burden of debt on all the nation riches and poors.
It is when the average riches - those who are real entrepreneurs - are destroyed like in 1929 that the economy then really suffers and so the poors. So the riches and the poors should rather unite against the enslavment debt system initiated by the Super Riches instead of fighting each other. But that would be necessary that they do understand how things really work and the virtual reality that is presented to them. And since the medias don't of course do the job of education but propaganda for maintaining such system and division, there is no issue at the moment than it will continue and worsen: taxes can only worsen because the poors will grow and United States should reach the same rate than Europe not only through direct taxes but through indirect ones like social security charges. The businesses of exploiting the poors - as other domains like ecology and security - under the pretext of fake humanitarian rights - can only grow also .
In such system it is impossible to not assist the poors since they can't find enough job, they could if the average riches could create enough jobs instead of the Corporate who only destroy jobs. No assistance to poors imply regiving the right to the riches to create without being taxed like they are and so that the super riches who make the law defend that but that is not their interest their interest is to maintain the burden of debt on all the nation riches and poors.
Quote from axeman:
Have the poor effectively enslaved the rich with the
help of the democrats?
http://peterandhelenevans.com/articles-richslaves.html
http://www.heritage.org/Research/Taxes/BG1415.cfm
I'm personally tired of paying well over 50% of my gross in taxes.
For the kind of money they are taking from me, I expect
my streets to be paved in FU**ING gold!
peace
axeman
harry your theory explains limousine liberals like ted kennedy. I never understood why he was so eager to give away others money until I realized that there may be something to the concept that the truly rich want a socialist state which they can control. This explains buffets', soros', and even bill gates' ridiculous seemingly disingenuous statements in the media lately.
I knew the concept but you put it in black and white for me.
By the way this thread is killing me. I recently moved from california because I was concerned about losing the equity in my house because of the problems going on there. Hoping I could find a little safe harbor in say Florida. But I guess it will only be short lived. By the way after traveling around I realize I still love california it is the best place I can think of. San Diego was paradise and the bastards in the gov't who got to tax the fifth largest economy in the world, take 8-10 percecent of (the high earning) Californians income as tax, and tax the hell out of everything that walked should be shot for not being able to balance that budget.
Those democrats on the legislature ruined the best spot on earth. And they did it on purpose trying to increase their voting base by redistributing wealth. Soon it will work for no one and the Feds will have to bail out california. It is criminal and I would have no problems sending the bastards to jail. During the debate Cruz said "Its not rocket science we spent too much".
I knew the concept but you put it in black and white for me.
By the way this thread is killing me. I recently moved from california because I was concerned about losing the equity in my house because of the problems going on there. Hoping I could find a little safe harbor in say Florida. But I guess it will only be short lived. By the way after traveling around I realize I still love california it is the best place I can think of. San Diego was paradise and the bastards in the gov't who got to tax the fifth largest economy in the world, take 8-10 percecent of (the high earning) Californians income as tax, and tax the hell out of everything that walked should be shot for not being able to balance that budget.
Those democrats on the legislature ruined the best spot on earth. And they did it on purpose trying to increase their voting base by redistributing wealth. Soon it will work for no one and the Feds will have to bail out california. It is criminal and I would have no problems sending the bastards to jail. During the debate Cruz said "Its not rocket science we spent too much".
This concept about 'taxing the super rich' is such a fallacy....when you are super rich you will most likely have dual residences and offshore accounts and if need be....MOVE YOUR BUSINESS FROM THE COUNTRY......FLAT TAX BABY!!! that is the only way....every man is equal....15% no deductions....and if you only make 15k per year and have a wife and three kids......Get a new job and stop having kids!!!!
Tell you what is going on in Florida today....theres a move to enact a sales tax up to 7%!!! ...to pay for roads...
...what the f8ck are you doing with my money in the first place??? safety , transportation should be the first two things taken care of....but heres the kicker onthe sales tax part.....its going to create....TOLL ROADS....?????? why the hell am i paying a sales tax so i can build a road that i then have to pay for????? ....and one thin i hate to hear and see is these signs saying " 1 cent for better roads".....yeah, it's 1 cent extra if i buy a bag of fritos......but what happens when you sell you home for 500k???? OOpps!! that's an extra 5k gone..
Tell you what is going on in Florida today....theres a move to enact a sales tax up to 7%!!! ...to pay for roads...
...what the f8ck are you doing with my money in the first place??? safety , transportation should be the first two things taken care of....but heres the kicker onthe sales tax part.....its going to create....TOLL ROADS....?????? why the hell am i paying a sales tax so i can build a road that i then have to pay for????? ....and one thin i hate to hear and see is these signs saying " 1 cent for better roads".....yeah, it's 1 cent extra if i buy a bag of fritos......but what happens when you sell you home for 500k???? OOpps!! that's an extra 5k gone..