Abattia, I can only speak for myself and others I am in close contact with, and it primarily pertains to the US fixed income futures markets. I began to hear a lot of chatter, then notice some drastic changes in 2004, worsening in 2005, and an extremely noticeable difference in 2006. Fast forward to a few years later (today), and I've now realized many discretionary only futures props got wiped out shortly after this time (2006,2007). Most people seem to think with 100% certainty it is algo's, black boxes, etc...that have taken away an edge.
Have the Algo's accomplished this?
- Thread starter Ticktaker
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Abattia, I can only speak for myself and others I am in close contact with, and it primarily pertains to the US fixed income futures markets. I began to hear a lot of chatter, then notice some drastic changes in 2004, worsening in 2005, and an extremely noticeable difference in 2006. Fast forward to a few years later (today), and I've now realized many discretionary only futures props got wiped out shortly after this time (2006,2007). Most people seem to think with 100% certainty it is algo's, black boxes, etc...that have taken away an edge.
Algos have made the market more efficient? That is the dumbest pretext for a thread I have seen on ET, even next to IncreaseNows moronic contributions.
Algos have destroyed liquidity and the liquidity providers.
New technology is not always the way forward. This technology of front running and insider information is destroying the markets.
How about this for an idea.
No more automated trading.
Where would that leave us?
Well.... No flash crashes for a start.
A lot more work for brokers and a harder job for them but who cares.
But you know why there wouldnt be flash crashes? Because traders would be prepared to work orders.
Markets working at a million miles an hour has been proven to be catastrophic.
But technology is the religion in America so there is probably no point in me posting.
Algo trading is an arms war towards the redistribution of wealth. & if you think that you stand a chance because you have a Phd in computer science and a10k computer and pay a few grand each month for colo then you are a joke.
I give you a few months at best. You last longer and make a few dollars and then the predatory algos will come after you.
This is the race to the moon. The point and clickers are pissing in the wind. The wannabe algos are pissing in the ocean. Only a handful of government designated algos will survive.
This is about redistribution of wealth. If you are back testing and trying to fine tune your automated trading system then you could probably make more money clipping coupons.
And you won't lose your house, car and marriage.
Algos have destroyed liquidity and the liquidity providers.
New technology is not always the way forward. This technology of front running and insider information is destroying the markets.
How about this for an idea.
No more automated trading.
Where would that leave us?
Well.... No flash crashes for a start.
A lot more work for brokers and a harder job for them but who cares.
But you know why there wouldnt be flash crashes? Because traders would be prepared to work orders.
Markets working at a million miles an hour has been proven to be catastrophic.
But technology is the religion in America so there is probably no point in me posting.
Algo trading is an arms war towards the redistribution of wealth. & if you think that you stand a chance because you have a Phd in computer science and a10k computer and pay a few grand each month for colo then you are a joke.
I give you a few months at best. You last longer and make a few dollars and then the predatory algos will come after you.
This is the race to the moon. The point and clickers are pissing in the wind. The wannabe algos are pissing in the ocean. Only a handful of government designated algos will survive.
This is about redistribution of wealth. If you are back testing and trying to fine tune your automated trading system then you could probably make more money clipping coupons.
And you won't lose your house, car and marriage.
Brah, your post is hilarious. Point and clickers routinely bank ticks off inefficiencies. Still happens, just not with the same consistency. Algo's bring about efficient price flow, in which a point and click guy will not get the edge he/she may have had at one time or another. You can use a word other than efficient if you'd like, but to argue it any other way is wasting your fucking time my dude.
Brah isn't a word, so I will make the assumption that you are being ironic and not a stupid septic.
Arguing that algos bring efficiency shows unbelievable naivety.
I can only imagine that either you don't trade the markets or haven't been in the game very long.
Insults and jokes aside, efficiency and liquidity are two concepts that I really recommend that you get your head around.
& what I don't understand is this - Why are you arguing their case -you can't profit from it.
An argument is a waste of time, like you say, and anyone can throw insults around. Lot of good it does us. But to say that a discussion is a waste of time is another thing. There's a lot of bullshit and bullshitters on this board but I would recommend that you keep your eyes open young man because every once in a while there might be an opinion worth taking on board from someone who has been in the game a while.
Hope that's worth your fucking while...
Arguing that algos bring efficiency shows unbelievable naivety.
I can only imagine that either you don't trade the markets or haven't been in the game very long.
Insults and jokes aside, efficiency and liquidity are two concepts that I really recommend that you get your head around.
& what I don't understand is this - Why are you arguing their case -you can't profit from it.
An argument is a waste of time, like you say, and anyone can throw insults around. Lot of good it does us. But to say that a discussion is a waste of time is another thing. There's a lot of bullshit and bullshitters on this board but I would recommend that you keep your eyes open young man because every once in a while there might be an opinion worth taking on board from someone who has been in the game a while.
Hope that's worth your fucking while...
Jesus, it always occurs to me immediately after I post brah....
Are you Dog the Bounty Hunter???
I take it all back.
I love your show.
Just keep on keeping on brah...
Love the mullet too if you don't mind me saying.
When you have that emotional moment with the people you apprehend... made me cry more than once I'm man enough to admit...
Keep it real brah
Love the show
Love that fat trailer park bitch youve got too -she got a website????
Talked to the fucking dog tonight brah...
That's something I'll be telling my grand kids about
Brah fucking brah fucking brah
Are you Dog the Bounty Hunter???
I take it all back.
I love your show.
Just keep on keeping on brah...
Love the mullet too if you don't mind me saying.
When you have that emotional moment with the people you apprehend... made me cry more than once I'm man enough to admit...
Keep it real brah
Love the show
Love that fat trailer park bitch youve got too -she got a website????
Talked to the fucking dog tonight brah...
That's something I'll be telling my grand kids about
Brah fucking brah fucking brah
Brah, the following shows me you are wasting everyone's time:
"Hey treasury traders.
I asked this question a while back. Got totally ignored and probabaly will again.
I traders at an office of one of the biggest clearers in Chicago and nobody is making money. It's depressing. There are rumors every now and then about people doing well but I'm tempted to believe that it is fiction.
High turnover of traders in a half full office - I can only think that it is down to the sales force being able to attract traders from smaller doomed outfits, that we are not all but empty.
In short it's a highly depressing office.
I am the type of person that has done better in offices where people are making money.
So where are they? Is anyone anywhere situated in a good office?
All I hear is doom and gloom so are there any good stories?
All I hear is stories of someone blowing their brains out once in a while.
& beware because I will follow up on any recommendations because I do want to make a move.
Anybody?"
Really? You are the type of person that has done better in offices where people are making money? That is fucking genius. You are at a firm where no one is making money? Generally people are profitable because there is an edge in the market...which directly correlates to my original post. Congrats on the fucking revelation you discovered. I think it's time you find that new office, agreed?
What are the other alternatives, nothing is easy....
And obviously playing into the computers strength is a death wish, computers are not human, they can not decipher news driven events, so play into there weaknesses....