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Hats off to Greece!
- Thread starter christianhgross
- Start date
Quote from MohdSalleh:
do you seriously think the EU will survive? It's all over, finished, if past history is any guide
Europe is sitting on the world's largest stockpile of gold. They even encourage it as a financial instrument per EU Directive:
In order to promote the use of gold as a financial instrument, this Directive introduces a tax exemption for supplies of investment gold. Previously, the normal tax arrangements applied to investment gold. Under those arrangements, supplies of investment gold were in principle subject to VAT, but some Member States were authorised on a transitional basis to exempt them. The new Directive eliminates these distortions of competition between Member States and, at the same time, enhances the competitiveness of the Community gold market.
http://europa.eu/legislation_summaries/taxation/l31012_en.htm
Which country in the world benefits the most from a paper standard - one that is also the reserve currency? The USA. How do their officials treat gold?
Why is that?
Back to Europe - Why do they have so much gold? Why per the Central Bank Gold Agreement (CBGA) have they limited sales of gold? Because it's pretty to look at?
As this financial conflaguration grows... and all paper based solutions are exhausted, they will use their gold.
Russia, India, China, know this - they are working like mad to accumulate more and more. They are even telling their citizens to load up on it.
Meanwhile, in the US, citizens are urged to cash in their "old, unwanted" gold. And US Banks struggle like Atlas to hold up the world of paper by keeping gold down.
...just a theory - some call it FREEGOLD
Interesting people to read:
John Exter and Antal Fekete. You may not agree with everything they say, but their views are thought provoking nonetheless.
Quote from TGregg:
It's a helpful and hopeful example. The EU spinning down the drain would not make life better for me. Still, there are three interesting differences. This was nearly a generation ago, in a new world country and a much better situation.
No I am sorry Canada of then is exactly the same scenario as Greece now. I know because I went through it....
In 1992 I graduated from one of the best engineering schools in Canada. 30% of my class had jobs. The rest had to fend for themselves. My wife and I moved to Europe because after a year of trying there was no hope! No jobs!
Unemployment in our age group was hovering at around 35%. The NDP destroyed Ontario and heralded an era of reckless spending. Medicare was the pits and I still have a toe that shows how bad doctors can butcher things up. My wife's grandmother died while waiting for medical attention in the emergency room. During that time hospitals were completely overbooked and there was no help.
It was Paul Martin and Jean Chretien that made the hard decisions. And those were not popular with Canadians!
When I met up with other Canadians in the US (as I time to time traveled there) they said to me, "you know Canada is a great place to be from!"
So overall it was a HORRIBLE time! My sympathies with the Greek people.
Quote from achilles28:
Buddy, you just chastised me for arguing the same case. Pay down the debt and come what may.
Canada and Singapore (and Japan, New Zealand and Russia) had the United States and the EU to pick up slack domestic consumption when their back was against the wall.
Who picks up Europe and America's "slack" when they go under? China??
EU and America *IS* is the world economy, for a better part.
No one gets out of this alive. Australia and New Zealand might do okay. Their debt-to-GDP is ridiculously low and can pump-prime a good 5 years to whether the storm and still be alright.
Huh? Canada had exports that picked up the slack?
http://www.canadainfolink.ca/charteleven.htm
Add up the numbers and there is a slight overhang in exports. It is by no means enough to drag a country from the edge.
If Europe and America go down NOBODY will survive. The results of this cannot be forecast since it would be a catastrophic event. And to say that you can forecast is a lie. I am an engineer by trade and one of the things engineers hate are catastrophic events because you cannot predict what happens.
Quote from achilles28:
Dreaming? Spare me.
The Fed's refusal to perform its role as lender of last resort to solvent banks imploded money supply and sustained the deflationary vacuum that brought the entire system to it's knees. Despite even that, the market bottomed 2 years later. We'd get a bottom within ~18 months.
Crashes are naturally sharp, severe, and bankruptcies legion. This next crash will be huge. No doubt. But people survive, the economy always rights itself, and new wealth creation soon follows. The Government simply needs to stand aside and let the system implode, while doling out as much UI as possible, to avert catastrophic loss of life. The one positive slant to all this: our fiat money can actually save, feed and cloth a huge swath of the Country during the next Great Depression.
You're talking as if there's some way to avert this bubble. There isn't. Printing more will only buy time (months or a few years) and change the qualitative nature of the crash from deflationary to inflationary. The economy will still go into a Huge Depression.
Better to pull the plug now, reneg on Banks and save the currency, than print like hell, buy a year or two, and destroy wages, savings and the dollar. A currency implosion is much worse than a stock market/real estate implosion. You ought to know that having lived through one.
Look we are not going to agree, but for you to think that an implosion and letting the chips fall where they may will result in only 18 months of pain is not understanding the problem at all.
I think we should just agree to disagree here because no amount of debating and discussion will budge either one of us from our viewpoints.
The Great Reflation
Let me start this week's Outside the Box by venting a little anger. It now looks like almost 30% of the Greek financing will come from the IMF, rather than just a small portion. And since 40% of the IMF is funded by US taxpayers, and that debt will be JUNIOR to current bond holders (if the rumors are true) I can't tell you how outraged that makes me.
-----------
It should be legal for armies to rape, pillage and plunder their conquered foes because instead of bailing out these fuktards, the Greeks, I would've invaded last week. Putting green tarps on the pools to avoid paying taxes and then getting bailed out, really, it's better off killing these tards.
Let me start this week's Outside the Box by venting a little anger. It now looks like almost 30% of the Greek financing will come from the IMF, rather than just a small portion. And since 40% of the IMF is funded by US taxpayers, and that debt will be JUNIOR to current bond holders (if the rumors are true) I can't tell you how outraged that makes me.
-----------
It should be legal for armies to rape, pillage and plunder their conquered foes because instead of bailing out these fuktards, the Greeks, I would've invaded last week. Putting green tarps on the pools to avoid paying taxes and then getting bailed out, really, it's better off killing these tards.
Quote from Covertibility:
The Great Reflation
Let me start this week's Outside the Box by venting a little anger. It now looks like almost 30% of the Greek financing will come from the IMF, rather than just a small portion. And since 40% of the IMF is funded by US taxpayers, and that debt will be JUNIOR to current bond holders (if the rumors are true) I can't tell you how outraged that makes me.
-----------
It should be legal for armies to rape, pillage and plunder their conquered foes because instead of bailing out these fuktards, the Greeks, I would've invaded last week. Putting green tarps on the pools to avoid paying taxes and then getting bailed out, really, it's better off killing these tards.
You don't get it.
Greece isn't being bailed out. The entire debt-based international paper monetary standard is being bailed out. Greece is but a symptom, a free rider - but not in the sense you think it is.
And who benefits the most from the global paper debt standard? The US by having the world's reserve currency. The US needs to put the Greek fire out to keep the game going.
If you're angry at Greece - then kick them out of the Euro, and let them default and never lend to them again. And guess what, it will spread... and a week later, you'll see what type of world evolves.
Quote from Misthos:
You don't get it.
Greece isn't being bailed out. The entire debt-based international paper monetary standard is being bailed out. Greece is but a symptom, a free rider - but not in the sense you think it is.
And who benefits the most from the global paper debt standard? The US by having the world's reserve currency. The US needs to put the Greek fire out to keep the game going.
If you're angry at Greece - then kick them out of the Euro, and let them default and never lend to them again. And guess what, it will spread... and a week later, you'll see what type of world evolves.
I like the last comment the best. This situation will devolve very very quickly. And what comes out of it is not what people will want.
While I am not happy about this house of cards. I am much less enthusiastic with the alternative.