Has western style socialism broken people's spirits?

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Quote from failed_trad3r:

well tax collection never goes above 20% of GDP. So taxes have not risen.

That's a function of people avoiding taxes as rates get higher--even if it means making less money. There's little incentive to do better when more than half is taken from societal producers and given to bureaucrats and entitlement junkies. Even one of Obama's former economic advisors (I forget her name) recoginzed this and did some studies on it.
 
Quote from Pekelo:

Quote from oldtime:

I like the free market.

Me too. So you don't like the US system I guess? After all, all those banks should have gone down, not to mention automakers. And Dow 3000 here we come! :)

I don't need rules to make it fair.

If we are talking about the NFL, the fairness of the picking new players make the system interesting, a bad team can build a new one in just a few years.... Unlike baseball....
no, I don't like the US system, especially late in the season when it makes more sense to lose just to get a better draft pick

You got parity, but for that you give up dynasty

Wells Fargo, and for that matter JPM would still be doing fine

I bought the dow at 750, 3000 is no big deal, 800 billion on the other hand could come in a little handy right about now

enjoy your NFL season, it's all fixed, nobody knows who would have been the greatest
 
Quote from Pekelo:

Quote from oldtime:

I like the free market.

Me too. So you don't like the US system I guess? After all, all those banks should have gone down, not to mention automakers. And Dow 3000 here we come! :)

I don't need rules to make it fair.

If we are talking about the NFL, the fairness of the picking new players make the system interesting, a bad team can build a new one in just a few years.... Unlike baseball....

Ever wonder why Iceland is never mentioned in the media much?

Iceland - who came out of their recession in 2009?
 
Quote from trefoil:

SS is insurance, with a massive risk pool that makes it quite solvent if it's funded as it's supposed to be.
It includes disability benefits as well as retirement benefits.
It's meant strictly to keep you out of poverty, not provide a good return. The latter is up to you in your individual retirement program. The gov't is just making sure being old doesn't automatically mean being hungry and homeless.
I know, but what kind of a piss poor attitude is that? Reminds me of when I was an employee, all I ever wanted to do was the bare minimum.
 
Quote from MarketMasher:

Ever wonder why Iceland is never mentioned in the media much?

Iceland - who came out of their recession in 2009?
no, I must admit I am quite ignorant on that subject, don't even know enough to lie about it convincingly.

Spare me the media, there is no end to the criticism there

But what's the deal with Iceland, and how did they resolve the recession that apparently they were going through until 2009?
 
Quote from morganist:

Has western style socialism broken people's spirits?

Doesn't Socialism eventually break the spirit of the 90% of the population who are "equal, worker bees"?... the only ones being happy are the elite overlords?

Wasn't America founded to get away from that?
 
Quote from MarketMasher:

Iceland - who came out of their recession in 2009?

Didn't they get their losses written off???

"Icelanders have resisted international pressure to make them fully reimburse the two governments for $5.4 billion they spent making whole Dutch and British depositors who lost their savings in the financial collapse."

Edit: OK, you are referring to the fact that they let their banks fail...

"“This is the proper process. If you go through a bubble economy and you need to correct it, the answer is not to convert private debt into public debt. Rather it is to restructure the debt to the level of the assets.”

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/12/08/business/global/08icecon.html
 
yeah thanks, interesting little article. Like you say, media don't cover it much when it's Iceland. If that was USA in 2009, they would have a whole library of books on it by now. And I'm sure it would be somebodys fault, depending on what network you are watching.

And that's the thing us common men can't figure out.

Why didn't we just do that?

I like it, simple, and easy to remember.
 
Quote from Pekelo:

Didn't they get their losses written off??? That is socialism in a way...

Not necessarily.

Some write-offs have some sort of tax break cushion. Other losses are written off as "all the money is gone, must move on".

Just because there is some sort of "write-off" doesn't mean somebody got well over it.

The "Icelandic write-off" resulted in their stock market declining from about 7500 to about 500. That is, the capital market lost about 93% of its value in the reset.

Now, we look at the "recovery" from the write-off low and say "it's a good thing"... ignoring the wealth lost by all in the write-down process.
 
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