Has Day Trading Changed?

The HFT algorithms can reverse quickly without showing any relation to past recent market data, making charts, even at low timeframes, lagging indicators unlike in the past.

If I want to buy in at the ES below a certain price where I see buyers entering, say just 1 tick below the bid, and keep moving that limit order up to 1 tick below the bid, the HFTs will not provide a fill until the market has moved over 10 ticks and now decides to reverse and sometimes even retrace that entire 10-tick HFT move.

Making money in fast and one-directional markets like the ES at the beginning of 2016 is totally different and easier than trading the current ES market, with HFT breakout and retracement price action causing vertigo to non-algorithm traders at the 5 minute level and below.
 
I see retail traders doing less scalping now in favor of other types of trading styles because they just don't want to compete as much with algo/hft. Thus, they are not as concern with what's occurring on the tick level where the algo game is primarily being played.

1) I currently see a slow growth in retail traders moving into algorithm trading. That alone ensures that retail traders will still be here years from now but just with different trading styles. I only say this because in the prior years...I didn't meet any retail traders that had become algorithm retail traders. In contrast, I've now met 5 ET members that have publicly stated here at ET that they've stopped being scalpers and now are algorithm traders...two more in the past month alone.

I don't know what the costs are involved for a retail trader moving into algorithm trading but I can imagine its not cheap and there's a requirement (education). That's a good thing and should help lower the retail trader failure rate.

2) I see more retail traders traversing into different trading instruments in comparison to what they use to trade. They know there's more than one trading instrument to trade and that has excellent liquidity. In the past, I saw more traders trading the exact same thing no matter what as if they've gotten married to the trading instrument until death do them parted.

3) I see more retail traders using statistical analysis and automation trading...the growth in this can be seen in ET program threads...more discussions and more traders helping each other in such and more brokers accessible for such via different types of platforms.

4) I see more retail traders being forced sort'uv speak to only trade certain periods of the year when volatility and liquidity are abnormally high (e.g. January) while reducing their trading dramatically in other parts of the year.

My point is this, markets change and some retail traders do adapt. Some will not adapt and the market will weed them out. It has always been that way and will continue to be that way. In addition, new traders coming into the markets will be more open minded to the new technologies in existent at the time they get involved in the markets.

For example, by the time quantum computers hit the financial markets at a cost around 10 - 15 million per purchase by financial institutions, universities and private companies...new retail traders entering the markets at that time will have access to the technology.

How ? Private companies will purchase it and then lease its use to other businesses and those other businesses will lease its use to brokerages setup for automation and algorithm trading and then those brokerages will lease/rent it out to retail traders, private traders and prop firms. In addition, Microsoft and Google have stated they will make quantum computing available to the masses...both have invested in quantum technology.

So yeah, trading has always been hard and each time we adapt...there will be new rules or new technology that requires us to adapt again.

P.S. Pharmaceuticals, NASA, CIA, FBI and military defense contractors are in line to be the first ones to use the technology prior to it making its way down to the financial markets and then the consumer (retail) level.

P.S.S. More universities today than 10 years ago have state of the art trading rooms...many financed by the world's top financial institutions. More of these students are using algorithm trading or automation. Many will one day work for financial institutions while others will just become your new breed of retail traders.
 
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The HFT algorithms can reverse quickly without showing any relation to past recent market data, making charts, even at low timeframes, lagging indicators unlike in the past.

If I want to buy in at the ES below a certain price where I see buyers entering, say just 1 tick below the bid, and keep moving that limit order up to 1 tick below the bid, the HFTs will not provide a fill until the market has moved over 10 ticks and now decides to reverse and sometimes even retrace that entire 10-tick HFT move.

Making money in fast and one-directional markets like the ES at the beginning of 2016 is totally different and easier than trading the current ES market, with HFT breakout and retracement price action causing vertigo to non-algorithm traders at the 5 minute level and below.

Yeah fair comment. If you're being price sensitive and looking for 2 way trade to get a decent fill that edge has gone.

Goes back to my point that market makers and bid/offer spread players out number institutional flow coming in and hitting the market giving us that 2 way price action we used to capitalise on.

But that's what politicians want it seem. A market that goes up 0.5% a day with little volatility. God forbid we have a bit of a sell off then the media start calling for more QE. More regulation which takes even more action out for us.

But we just have to evolve. I'm starting focus on exploring the slow grind in the markets. My holding period has increased dramatically which allows me to be less price sensitive.
 
Not saying you're wrong. But what is it you don't like about HFT's? Most ppl just use them as a scape goat without really knowing what they do and don't do.

If your edge is getting to the front of queue position or hitting a news release faster than the competitors then yeah algos have that game locked up.

But most retail traders are not trading like this. If you are picking levels off a chart and running it for 10-15 ticks I don't see how HFTs have made any difference. They've dampened volatility which is annoying for me because I am a professional trader that used to look for these micro edges. They've effected me but don't see how they impact most retail guys.

Most retail traders lose because they look at useless indicators and massively under capitalised. When have retail futures traders EVER made money? Not in my career

HFT is more like an extra tax but unless the retail trader is scalping, it shouldn't make him unprofitable. HFT is more of a nuisance rather than the killer of traders.
 
I always find it interesting when members point out retail traders vs professionals like the rules are different. In my experience, any trader that finds an edge and manages his risk, makes money, no matter what you call them.

I don't understand the difference either. The distinction probably should be between part-time retail punters who aren't dead serious about trading and the professionals, whether retail or not, whose income entirely or mostly relies on trading and investing.
There's no real difference between a guy at home and a guy in any type of prop shop/trading room as the tools available are typically same or similar.
 
The differences are a ton and below are just the basic info. I'll let you guess which one is which (private trader, retail trader and professional trader)...

Trader A - Licensed, stable salary, performance bonus, regulated, most likely did an internship prior to being hired, in house training after being hired, compliant department ensures they follow the rules, college educated, low failure rate, job includes health/dental insurance with other benefits (e.g. stock shares) and that includes psychological help if needed...

Trader B - Not licensed, unstable salary, high failure rate, no performance bonus, not regulated, most likely did not do an internship, no compliant department (trader relies solely on himself/herself), does not need to be college educated, high failure rate, pays for private health/dental insurance and usually does not include psychological help if needed, a lot tougher to get loans to buy a car or house...

Trader C - Former professional trader that quit the job to trade their own account. Usually has 1 - 3 employees and is still connected to the professional network.

Simply, there's a huge difference. Seriously, I'm from a trading family and I'm the only retail trader in the family. My old man worked on the floor when I was a kid and I currently have three relatives working for firms (BNP Parabis, Credit Suisse and Société Générale) plus friends of the family working for professional firms.

There's a huge difference between retail, private and professional. Its possible the confusion here is that some retail traders call themselves a professional trader if they're profitable and trading for a living. In reality, that can only happen if the retail trader treats his/her trading like a business and has most likely setup their taxes in which they pay themselves a salary so that their personal income is different from their business income for tax/liability reasons.

As for prop traders, I really don't personally know any. Thus, I don't know what they call themselves nor do I know how their government view their occupation for tax reasons. That's the other issue, depending upon what country you're being taxed in...the distinction may be a little more blurred between the groups or LESS blurred.

The way I see it, its not really about what you call yourself. Its more about what you can do or get with that title. It starts with if you're trading for a living as your primary source of income and then you can go into the other stuff about how you're setup your trading for taxation and how you've setup your bank accounts and so on.

My point is that the government, insurance companies and banks or other organizations know exactly what you are regardless if you agree with them or not. Therefore, if you're a retail trader and you literally treat your trading like a business...you're a professional in the eyes of those organizations because you're in the business of trading.

So yeah, there clearly are differences and I'm very comfortable with those differences considering I made a choice right out of college to go retail instead of working for a firm as a professional trader. There's no shame in calling yourself retail and if someone works for you...you can even call yourself "private trader" (hint). The latter is a phrase more common in Europe and Asia.
 
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Timothy Sykes and his profitable broker statements was posted here at ET by a guy name marketsufer. :D

There are even Youtube videos of Sykes doing profitable stock trades (live trades...not hindsight) out of a hotel or vacation spot. :rolleyes:

Oooops, maybe he doesn't qualify because he trades penny stocks ???
Timothy Sykes and his profitable broker statements was posted here at ET by a guy name marketsufer. :D

There are even Youtube videos of Sykes doing profitable stock trades (live trades...not hindsight) out of a hotel or vacation spot. :rolleyes:

Oooops, maybe he doesn't qualify because he trades penny stocks ???
market surfer posted incomplete statements from sykes, when called on it he said look it up your- self or get in touch with sykes. you fell for the bs from a flim flam man
 
market surfer posted incomplete statements from sykes, when called on it he said look it up your- self or get in touch with sykes. you fell for the bs from a flim flam man

Nobody fell for anything.

You don't realize I am using the story to smoke out his multiple aliases because they get uptight when I mention it to those I suspect to be marketsurfer. :banghead:

In this particular situation, the person I was revealing as surf was the person I responded to with that message you quoted...the message was a reply only to mignonette and not for anyone else. Now the alias mignonette is banned because he is surf based upon what he writes and how he responds to certain statements. I've used the exact same story with four other aliases of surf...all are now banned.
 
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Nobody fell for anything.

You don't realize I am using the story to smoke out his multiple aliases because they get uptight when I mention it to those I suspect to be marketsurfer. :banghead:

In this particular situation, the person I was revealing as surf was the person I responded to with that message you quoted...the message was a reply only to mignonette and not for anyone else. Now the alias mignonette is banned because he is surf based upon what he writes and how he responds to certain statements. I've used the exact same story with four other aliases of surf...all are now banned.


I heard you mentioned Dr.Brett in another thread. He is one of the best!
 
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