Happy Birthday: Reagan Fires ATC's

[seneca_roman]

Quote from Ricter:

I don't see a "Reagan miracle" in that graph.

I didn't mean to imply one; my comment was to counter CO's that Reagan's firing the ATCs 30 years ago caused the present economic mess.

The graph shows 25+ years of strong economic performance following the firing. I don't think you can correlate Reagan's act 30 years ago to today's economic problems nor can you show that the firing caused 25+ years of good times.

Seneca

 

[Gabfly1]

The battle of the non sequiturs?

 

[CaptainObvious]

All of my anti Reagan ranting aside, I would be remiss if I didn't point out that Unions have done a really swell job of shooting themselves in the foot over the years. They've done really well protecting hacks who should have been fired, while watching their better troops be shown the door as companies continued to outsource over the years.

 

[pspr]

Quote from seneca_roman:

Following Reagan's firing of the ATCs, the US went on to have probably one of its best economic runs ever. That run stopped IMO when Bush II started a couple of wars while cutting taxes.

I think it was more the collapse of the real estate bubble than the wars or tax cuts. I think RE will have to find a bottom before we can see a normal recovery although I personally would like to lay more of the blame at the feet of Obama (he isn't helping). The RE market has led every recovery since WWII because it is the main source of wealth for the average citizen.

 

[Ricter]

Quote from CaptainObvious:

All of my anti Reagan ranting aside, I would be remiss if I didn't point out that Unions have done a really swell job of shooting themselves in the foot over the years. They've done really well protecting hacks who should have been fired, while watching their better troops be shown the door as companies continued to outsource over the years.

Even wages and benefits far below what the unions won* in their heyday are still many multiples of what cheap labor abroad is settling for. This is a big problem of vast inequality and a surplus labor pool.

* They were won because the labor and skills were in short supply--the compensation was given because that's what you had to do to get, and to keep, good people. At the time, they were still, in terms of operating expenses, sales, and projected sales, not "business breakers". They have only come to be so in recent times.

 

[seneca_roman]

Quote from Ricter:

Even wages and benefits far below what the unions won* in their heyday are still many multiples of what cheap labor abroad is settling for. This is a big problem of vast inequality and a surplus labor pool.

* They were won because the labor and skills were in short supply--the compensation was given because that's what you had to do to get, and to keep, good people. At the time, they were still, in terms of operating expenses, sales, and projected sales, not "business breakers". They have only come to be so in recent times.

I agree with you. Having been part of or leader of the negotiating team for 8 labor contracts; one of the first orders of business was the "prevailing wage and benefit survey."

This survey determined what package of pay and benefits were needed to attract and keep the labor we needed. The "negotiations" were a necessary part of reaching an agreement, but the amount we would pay was capped at what the survey found well before we started talking to the Union. We only pretended the negotiations had any bearing on the financial package. Many "stalking horses" were used as part of this ruse.

Seneca

 

[Lucrum]

Quote from seneca_roman:

"THIRTY years ago today, when he threatened to fire nearly 13,000 air traffic controllers unless they called off an illegal strike, Ronald Reagan not only transformed his presidency, but also shaped the world of the modern workplace."

I remember it well. We corporate pilots actually enjoyed the firings.
Because of the shortage of controllers we were given reservations for all IFR flights with a narrow 15 minute window to depart in. Miss the window and you were likely stuck for many hours or longer waiting on a new reservation. The benefit was that passengers with a habit of being hours late had no choice but to show up on time.

 

[geostrathmore]

Having an agreement really does help. Especially if the laborer feels that he got a say in what the deal is... giving people the illusion of power is golden.

Quote from seneca_roman:

I agree with you. Having been part of or leader of the negotiating team for 8 labor contracts; one of the first orders of business was the "prevailing wage and benefit survey."

This survey determined what package of pay and benefits were needed to attract and keep the labor we needed. The "negotiations" were a necessary part of reaching an agreement, but the amount we would pay was capped at what the survey found well before we started talking to the Union. We only pretended the negotiations had any bearing on the financial package. Many "stalking horses" were used as part of this ruse.

Seneca