Happy Birthday Jesus!

Well, I think Christianity is a good religion. It teaches people to love one another. With commercialized Holiday like Christmas, it really help the economy, which mean it helps everyone.

How could anyone not like a God who tell us to be fruitful (if you know what he mean)?
 
Quote from mksummny:

Anyone with kids can understand true unconditional love. All you have to do is hold them once and understand that your love for them has no bounds.
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I sure wish mine was with me. But so it goes with this weather. At least mine will be with me tomorrow.

Some friends of mine can't say that about theirs because of cancer.

Lets please keep things in perspective folks.
 
Quote from mksummny:

I tried to bite my tongue however I can no longer remain silent on reading this thread. Its amazing how someone will so vehiamitely go out of their way to refuse such a gift that Christ was. I can not help but think that we are all accountable for our thoughts and actions and your words. Even if Christ the risen Lord was not real what did he teach that was so offensive? So he taught to put others first and be a servant to them. He taught to love and be kind. He commanded us to love our neighbors. John the apostle mentioned the word love 88 times in his epistles. My question is why? Why is it so important to remember love. Scripture says that God is Love. So therefore when we experience love we are feeling God. Anyone with kids can understand true unconditional love. All you have to do is hold them once and understand that your love for them has no bounds. So if God is love and he gave his son for our sin to bring redemption back into our relationship with him, and you find it offensive and feel you must fight to make people understand your foolishness than I am extremely saddened for you. Today is a day that we can all celebrate for those that believe that something greater than ourselves was offered to us as a gift. I am sorry that you are offended at such a "ridiculous" story that is presented in scripture. I too once felt like you and actually took the time to read the scripture and let the word of the Lord soak upon my heart. Its amazing what he can do when you actually let him.
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As a former devout Christian, I'm calling bullshit.

Love? Are you delusional? As horrific as the god of the Old Testament was, Christianity brought in a whole new level of terror.

For example, slavery. Neither Jesus nor "Saint" Paul nor any other Biblical figure is recorded as saying anything in opposition to the institution of slavery.

Let's look specifically at Paul:

Paul's violation of the Mosaic Code on slavery:

While in prison, Paul met a runaway slave, Onesimus, the property of a Christian -- presumably Pheliemon. He sent the slave back to his owner.

This action is forbidden in Deuteronomy 23:15-16:

"Thou shalt not deliver unto his master the servant which is escaped from his master unto thee. He shall dwell with thee, even among you, in that place which he shall choose in one of thy gates, where it liketh him best: thou shalt not oppress him."

Rather than give the slave sanctuary, Paul returned him to his owner.

Then there's this:

Slaves, be obedient to those who are your masters according to the flesh, with fear and trembling, in the sincerity of your heart, as to Christ; not by way of eyeservice, as men-pleasers, but as slaves of Christ, doing the will of God from the heart. With good will render service, as to the Lord, and not to men, knowing that whatever good thing each one does, this he will receive back from the Lord, whether slave or free. (Ephesians 6:5-8)

Slaves, in all things obey those who are your masters on earth, not with external service, as those who merely please men, but with sincerity of heart, fearing the Lord. Whatever you do, do your work heartily, as for the Lord rather than for men, knowing that from the Lord you will receive the reward of the inheritance. It is the Lord Christ whom you serve. For he who does wrong will receive the consequences of the wrong which he has done, and that without partiality. (Colossians 3:22-25)

Servants, be submissive to your masters with all respect, not only to those who are good and gentle, but also to those who are unreasonable. For this finds favor, if for the sake of conscience toward God a person bears up under sorrows when suffering unjustly. For what credit is there if, when you sin and are harshly treated, you endure it with patience? But if when you do what is right and suffer for it you patiently endure it, this finds favor with God. For you have been called for this purpose, since Christ also suffered for you, leaving you an example for you to follow in His steps, (1 Peter 2:18-21)


Paul is also the nasty little misogynist who gave similar advice to women to obey abusive husbands as they would Jesus.

And let's not even get into the horrors promised in the Book of Revelations.

Your "love" god is as big a pile of bullshit as your "creator" god.
 
Holiness in the filth of sheep manure and straw is the BRILLIANCE of the birth of Jesus. I celebrate today his life and the gift he was for all of us.....time and dates mean nothing in the realm of our God and our gift. It was not a grand arrival that would be needed by the non believer, no it was a quiet and humble birth for the Son of God. :cool:
 
Quote from kut2k2:

As a former devout Christian, I'm calling bullshit.

Love? Are you delusional? As horrific as the god of the Old Testament was, Christianity brought in a whole new level of terror.

For example, slavery. Neither Jesus nor "Saint" Paul nor any other Biblical figure is recorded as saying anything in opposition to the institution of slavery.

Let's look specifically at Paul:

Paul's violation of the Mosaic Code on slavery:

While in prison, Paul met a runaway slave, Onesimus, the property of a Christian -- presumably Pheliemon. He sent the slave back to his owner.

This action is forbidden in Deuteronomy 23:15-16:

"Thou shalt not deliver unto his master the servant which is escaped from his master unto thee. He shall dwell with thee, even among you, in that place which he shall choose in one of thy gates, where it liketh him best: thou shalt not oppress him."

Rather than give the slave sanctuary, Paul returned him to his owner.
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I shudder to bring to a devout christians' attention [or former devout christian], an oversight regarding the meaning of Scripture.

I will assume, given your self proclamation, that you are familiar with the Mosaic standards for servitude contained not only in the passage you quote, but also in Leviticus xxv and Exodus xxi. The passage of Deuteronomy is, as you know, pertaining to foreign slaves/fugitives who set foot on Hebrew soil. I mention this because Paul fulfills this requirement with regards to Onesimus.

A reading of the epistle will make several items rather clear.

1) Onesimus obviously was a fugitive from his master's household. It could be, given Philemon was a resident near Colossae, a journey of approximately 1,000 miles to Rome, and as Paul has alluded too in his letter, that some money might have been stolen by Onesimus to aid in his journey.

2) Paul obviously gave Onesimus shelter in his own maintained household.

3) Paul did not betray Onesimus to the Roman authorities, as the secular law would have instructed. Paul did not hold Onesimus until Philemon could travel to Rome and retreive his "property".

4) Paul instructed Onesimus in the good news of Christ. Onesimus became a follower of Christ.

5) Paul respected the rights of Philemon, as allowed for by the secular laws of the time, and knowing that the Philemon was also a household of faith, sent [ by the willing acceptance of Onesimus himself] Onesimus back to Philemon with the letter of introduction we now call the Epistle of Paul to Philemon.

6) Paul knew that Philemon would recall that he himself has a Master also.

We are all slaves and servants of our lusts and desires, and sadly, even in this day and age, there are still slaves in the secular sense.

As a former devout christian, I would have thought that you would have known that the chains of bondage are broken in the heart, not on top of the flesh.
 
Quote from Barth Vader:

I shudder to bring to a devout christians' attention [or former devout christian], an oversight regarding the meaning of Scripture.

I will assume, given your self proclamation, that you are familiar with the Mosaic standards for servitude contained not only in the passage you quote, but also in Leviticus xxv and Exodus xxi. The passage of Deuteronomy is, as you know, pertaining to foreign slaves/fugitives who set foot on Hebrew soil. I mention this because Paul fulfills this requirement with regards to Onesimus.

A reading of the epistle will make several items rather clear.

1) Onesimus obviously was a fugitive from his master's household. It could be, given Philemon was a resident near Colossae, a journey of approximately 1,000 miles to Rome, and as Paul has alluded too in his letter, that some money might have been stolen by Onesimus to aid in his journey.

2) Paul obviously gave Onesimus shelter in his own maintained household.

3) Paul did not betray Onesimus to the Roman authorities, as the secular law would have instructed. Paul did not hold Onesimus until Philemon could travel to Rome and retreive his "property".

4) Paul instructed Onesimus in the good news of Christ. Onesimus became a follower of Christ.

5) Paul respected the rights of Philemon, as allowed for by the secular laws of the time, and knowing that the Philemon was also a household of faith, sent [ by the willing acceptance of Onesimus himself] Onesimus back to Philemon with the letter of introduction we now call the Epistle of Paul to Philemon.

6) Paul knew that Philemon would recall that he himself has a Master also.

We are all slaves and servants of our lusts and desires, and sadly, even in this day and age, there are still slaves in the secular sense.

As a former devout christian, I would have thought that you would have known that the chains of bondage are broken in the heart, not on top of the flesh.
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Well said.
 
Quote from Barth Vader:


We are all slaves and servants of our lusts and desires, and sadly, even in this day and age, there are still slaves in the secular sense.

As a former devout christian, I would have thought that you would have known that the chains of bondage are broken in the heart, not on top of the flesh.
More...
This is about the forced labor of people who are considered to be the property of another person, who can be beaten, tortured to work to do anything their master demands.
Not some woolly minded free mens' Christian fantasy excuses about lust and desire.

What you say here should be more than sufficient reason to convince any honorable person that Christian belief can make even reasonable people sound and be, utterly detestable
 
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