Handling your family and social life as a trader

Quote from Jesus:

You will eventually lose a lot of money, maybe all, if you are not paper trading.
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We all will eventually die, that is certain. Should we give up on living because of that?

At least with trading, by following sound risk management policies, I can reduce the chance of blowing up so that it is literally lower than the chance of me getting run over by a bus, getting cancer, or having a heart attack. I've traded tech stocks through the internet bubble and crash, stock index futures on 9/11, oil and gold during the Iraq invasion, housing stocks and financials in the last couple of years, so I'd say I'm pretty battle tested during crises. Last year I took most of my capital out of the bank and brokerage system and put it in government accounts and gold, so I would not even have lost a penny if the world financial system had collapsed. I'm diversified to protect against broker/bank insolvency, and have a decent chunk of "offline" money to protect against account hacking etc. I'm spread across countries in case the government gets and dumb ideas about wealth confiscation. And I bought a rural farm a few years ago, which I rent out at attractive rates, so if the shit hits the fan I have a safe retreat I can survive on, and a skilled and loyal tenant farmer who can show me the ropes. If I am going to lose all my money it will take something pretty damn crazy to happen, like a nuclear war, in which case money will be the least of my worries.

If you work a conventional job, you can get fired any time. Even if you run a business, mere rumour-mongering or false accusation can get your reputation ruined for life, and in this age of google and anonymous online posting, you can be falsely accused of child abuse, rape, wife-battering etc and the accusations can go online and stay there forever - no employer will touch you with a barge pole no matter your total innocence, your customers will flee and your business will collapse. The government can also shut you down, or tax or regulate you into the poor-house at any time, don't ever think you live in a free country.

As a trader it doesn't matter if people think you are worse than Adolf Hitler, if you can open a brokerage account and be the best bid or offer, people will trade with you. You are thus mostly immune to reputational risk. As a trader you can move anywhere in the world and work from an internet cafe, no single government can stop you working, it would take unified worldwide action to put you out of business - possible but far less likely than one government doing it. As a trader you can have no boss, no colleagues - some put that as a downside, but to me it means I rely on myself, and not the often wrong judgements of others. I would hate to know that my pay cheque relied on what one or two other people *thought* of me, rather than how well I do my job. As a trader, I can work and live as a free and independent man, not a wage slave, not a captive source of extortionate taxation for life, not reliant of the whims and prejudices of others, but just on my own merits. And that suits me just fine. Can you name another job where that is the case?
 
Dont you think those actions of keeping a vault of gold in your house was a bit much in retrospect? I never once believed that Bank of America or JPMorgan would go belly up. If the doomsday scenario did happen as you outlined, then you would have much greater worries of self protection and survival.

Quite honestly, I do not believe any of your statements and think its just stuff posted on an internet message board to fluff your ego. If thats what you have to do to fluff your ego, hey, we all have our own ways of doing things. More power to you.

Quote from Ghost of Cutten:

We all will eventually die, that is certain. Should we give up on living because of that?

At least with trading, by following sound risk management policies, I can reduce the chance of blowing up so that it is literally lower than the chance of me getting run over by a bus, getting cancer, or having a heart attack. I've traded tech stocks through the internet bubble and crash, stock index futures on 9/11, oil and gold during the Iraq invasion, housing stocks and financials in the last couple of years, so I'd say I'm pretty battle tested during crises. Last year I took most of my capital out of the bank and brokerage system and put it in government accounts and gold, so I would not even have lost a penny if the world financial system had collapsed. I'm diversified to protect against broker/bank insolvency, and have a decent chunk of "offline" money to protect against account hacking etc. I'm spread across countries in case the government gets and dumb ideas about wealth confiscation. And I bought a rural farm a few years ago, which I rent out at attractive rates, so if the shit hits the fan I have a safe retreat I can survive on, and a skilled and loyal tenant farmer who can show me the ropes. If I am going to lose all my money it will take something pretty damn crazy to happen, like a nuclear war, in which case money will be the least of my worries.

If you work a conventional job, you can get fired any time. Even if you run a business, mere rumour-mongering or false accusation can get your reputation ruined for life, and in this age of google and anonymous online posting, you can be falsely accused of child abuse, rape, wife-battering etc and the accusations can go online and stay there forever - no employer will touch you with a barge pole no matter your total innocence, your customers will flee and your business will collapse. The government can also shut you down, or tax or regulate you into the poor-house at any time, don't ever think you live in a free country.

As a trader it doesn't matter if people think you are worse than Adolf Hitler, if you can open a brokerage account and be the best bid or offer, people will trade with you. You are thus mostly immune to reputational risk. As a trader you can move anywhere in the world and work from an internet cafe, no single government can stop you working, it would take unified worldwide action to put you out of business - possible but far less likely than one government doing it. As a trader you can have no boss, no colleagues - some put that as a downside, but to me it means I rely on myself, and not the often wrong judgements of others. I would hate to know that my pay cheque relied on what one or two other people *thought* of me, rather than how well I do my job. As a trader, I can work and live as a free and independent man, not a wage slave, not a captive source of extortionate taxation for life, not reliant of the whims and prejudices of others, but just on my own merits. And that suits me just fine. Can you name another job where that is the case?
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lol at this point in history I don't think buying up gold is an insane idea at all, normal people who have fuck all idea of how the economy works might think its insane but honestly? You might end up laughing at everyone one day with the way banks operate and since the bailouts anyone who did that is going "Neh neh I told you so" pretty openly.

Hell, look at France, didn't their finance minister practically do that when their economy came out of the recession? Bloody hell lol :P
 
Quote from hermit:

Same as yours :D
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Fine, you may demonstrate your attempt to be clever by showing the accuracy of your claim.

Jack has endless testimonies from many to this effect.
 
retaildaytrader, you sound like a bitter old man who has lost a ton of money in the markets. Or maybe at some point you were very successful but then you lost it all back. Only bitter people who have lost money in the markets will call it a "casino where everyone eventually will lose."

I have NEVER heard anyone that is rich say "money isn't everything" or some sort of similiar comment. Only people who are poor and bitter make comments like that to make themselves feel better or to justify being poor. Have anyone heard Bill Gates or Warren Buffet make such comments? Obviously, money can't buy health or happiness. We all know that. But having money can enable someone to solve many more problems. In the end, most of us will probably get some form of cancer and then die. Well, the wealthy will be able to die much more comfortablely than the poor.

I have seen poor. I grew up on a third floor walk up ghetto apt. I shared a tiny bedroom with my sister until I was 20. There was only enough space for a bunkbed and a small desk which we had to share to do homework. My parents are immigrants from China. When they first arrived in America, they worked 17 hour days. After awhile my dad had to sell his restaurant because he can not stand up for long periods. My mom was luckier. She got a job at HSBC. After 35 years, she became a VP. Then she retired and all she got was a flat screen for her years of service. And yes, both of my parents are now fully retired and getting a pension and a SS check every month. So they did do very well for themsleves. But who is to say that when I get to their age that the government or a company will "take care" of me?

I started working when I was 16 and by the time I was 21, I knew that my chances of repeating my parents path of getting a degree and working for one company until retirement will be slim. No matter how smart I am or how hard I work, I would just be another number to another corporation. I am expendable for any reason, including my race, my age, gender, or just because I am not on the company softball team. It's all about politics, not ability or loyalty.

So I decided to look into trading. My original goal with trading was to make the same amount of money as I did working a full time job. Ever since 2003, I have achieved that goal every year. I will not post a journal or my trading methods. There is no need to prove to anyone here how much I make. But I can tell you that I am living the life that I choose to live. I am not a slave to any company. When I make a correct decision, I get all the credit. Of course, when I am wrong, I also must take all the blame. But losing trades is a part of life for any trader. The trick is to manage your risk so you don't blow out your account. Live to trade another day. And BTW, when I first started trading, I blew out my account quite a few times. Live and learn!

And yes, I am the one who wrote earlier that many in my family "snickered" at me when they heard that I have decided to trade full time. They doubted me not because they have lost money in the markets, in fact none of them knows much about the markets. All of them were either blue collar or white collar workers struggling to make ends meat every month. They snickered at me because they did not believe that it is possible for someone to be successful unless they struggle like they did.

As for my health, I am well. I am aware that I sit in front of my computer every day. I have a public gym downstairs and I make good use of it 4-5 times a week. I also love to power-walk and can easily walk 8-12 miles on any given day. I doubt my mailman or my Fedex guy is any healthier than I am. But I do know that I probably take more vacations in a year then they do! And I do not need to get my days-off approved by a manager that probably does not like me!

As for my personal life, I have been in a happy relationship for the past 12 years. I met the love of my life when I was poor. We struggled together thru those years and now that we have some money, we are able to enjoy life together.

So am I saying that trading is for everyone? Hell no. But just because 99% of people have failed does not mean that there are no successful traders out there. I am sure there are many.

I too believe that being happy is much more important then making the most money. I too would not trade my health for a bag of cash. But I am not naive like some people in this thread to say that money is not important or that money can not contribute to being happy or healthy. Too many people are afraid of money.

When I lived in NYC and took the subways to work everyday, I saw the looks of bitterness on everyone's face. Not one was smiling. I swore that I do not want to be like them.

In closing I want to wish everyone a safe and Happy New Year. Good health and happines to all.
 
First off, starting off with an insult is not a powerful way of debate. You probably need a class in public speaking.

Second, If I had to choose between living in a ghetto apartment working a two-bit job at a repair shop and be healthy or live with a serious medical condition like HIV or have my legs taken off and be a billionaire, I would choose living in the ghetto apartment. You have no idea what its like to have one of those conditions. I have no idea either, but I am happy with what I have which is my health.

I might be old, but I am not bitter. I have experience in life and know that money cannot make you happy. I will tell you what will make you happy. Just a few things, there are a lot more:

1) Quality Personal Relationships- Friends, family, co-workers, girlfriends, wives, etc. Developing quality relationships and getting along with others is, in my opinion, the greatest key to being happy. Lets say I gave you 100 million dollars. Then I dropped you off at a random party in the city that is filled with professionals. Will you be able to make friends? Will you be able to make the best of the situation?

2) Making the best of any situation/knowing how to have fun- You can live in a multi-million dollar apartment or mansion, but you cant have fun unless you know how to have fun. There are some guys out there who are better at having fun and making the best of any situation then others. If you have free time and are just sitting around, then you are wrong. You have to go out and make the best of your situation.

If I gave you a bank account of a million dollars and dropped you off in France in a hotel for a month long vacation. Could you have fun?

3) Positive/forward thinking- If its cold and snowing, then you say to yourself its great for skiing. Some people might turn it into a negative situation, but you have to make it positive. Whatever happens in life, try to spin it positive...if possible.

4) Doing what you enjoy doing- We all enjoy certain things in our lives. You have to do what you want to do.

5) Fitness- No explanation needed. If you are healthy, then you will be more happy then not.

There is a lot more, but if you believe that money can make you happy alone then you are wrong and there are many individuals in this forum who will tell you you are wrong.

The people you have mentioned were not thinking of money when they made it. They enjoyed what they did, did what they wanted to do, positive thinkers and everything I outlined above. They did not work for money, but were working towards being happy. Bill Gates enjoys what he does. Buffet enjoys what he does. Money is not what makes them happy, but just being themselves and doing what they want to do makes them happy.

Attacking me is not going to solve your social issues. You are going to have to get a grip, get yourself to a psychologist and resolve these issues on your own. What you are describing to me is a little alarming. Basically, you are saying you cannot be happy without money. You said one other thing in this thread that also concerns me. You stated that money can solve a lot of problems. The fact is that it cannot. If I parachuted money into the Middle East will that somehow solve the issues between the Arabs and the Jews? Israel is not a poor country. The oil rich Arab countries are not poor. However, neither seem to get along too well.

It all comes down to you and how you interact with others. Money is not going to make you a better or greater person. Its not going to solve your social issues. There are plenty of guys out there without money who know how to have a good time and are wonderful to be around. On the flipside, there are many technically oriented guys who are simply not too much fun.

If you want to be happy, then you have to address that issue with yourself. There is no amount of cash that can make you happy. It comes down to your attitude towards life, other people and the world around us. Let me take, for example, the guys you mentioned on the subway. Are those guys in suits on the subway poor? Some of them are coming from million dollar apartments. In some wealthy suburbs of NJ, plenty of people take the train. If you are commuting in the morning on that subway in a suit, I can tell you are probably not poor. Those guys are good examples. Even though they have a good job and lots of money, they still are not happy. Its not about money, but how they look at the world.

Re-read your words and re-think. Have a good weekend.

Quote from MJ888:

retaildaytrader, you sound like a bitter old man who has lost a ton of money in the markets. Or maybe at some point you were very successful but then you lost it all back. Only bitter people who have lost money in the markets will call it a "casino where everyone eventually will lose."

I have NEVER heard anyone that is rich say "money isn't everything" or some sort of similiar comment. Only people who are poor and bitter make comments like that to make themselves feel better or to justify being poor. Have anyone heard Bill Gates or Warren Buffet make such comments? Obviously, money can't buy health or happiness. We all know that. But having money can enable someone to solve many more problems. In the end, most of us will probably get some form of cancer and then die. Well, the wealthy will be able to die much more comfortablely than the poor.
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I am very happy with where I am in my life. I am in a very happy relationship. My relationship with my family is a very good one even though some do not agree with my choice of career. And that is fine. I am not upset that someone does not agree with how I live. Everyone is entitled to their opinion.

It is very clear in my ealrier statements that I do not think money is everything. However, it is a very important part of daily life. Being poor is quite stressful too. Being poor can also result in bad health and not being able to get the quality medical care. In my opinion, I would rather have money than live in a ghetto. Do you feel that is so wrong?

Wow! retaildaytrader, you consider me suggesting that you sound bitter an attack or an insult? And as for all your examples, I have traveled to many cities in the world and I have had no problems getting along with people or making friends. I actually think you may have a problem getting along with others because you are so set in your opinion that you refuse to acknowledge that there actually is another way.

Please explain to us here why you have such a negative view on trading?

Be healthy and happy!
 
Quote from retaildaytrader:

First off, starting off with an insult is not a powerful way of debate. You probably need a class in public speaking.

Second, If I had to choose between living in a ghetto apartment working a two-bit job at a repair shop and be healthy or live with a serious medical condition like HIV or have my legs taken off and be a billionaire, I would choose living in the ghetto apartment. You have no idea what its like to have one of those conditions. I have no idea either, but I am happy with what I have which is my health.

I might be old, but I am not bitter. I have experience in life and know that money cannot make you happy. I will tell you what will make you happy. Just a few things, there are a lot more:

1) Quality Personal Relationships- Friends, family, co-workers, girlfriends, wives, etc. Developing quality relationships and getting along with others is, in my opinion, the greatest key to being happy. Lets say I gave you 100 million dollars. Then I dropped you off at a random party in the city that is filled with professionals. Will you be able to make friends? Will you be able to make the best of the situation?

2) Making the best of any situation/knowing how to have fun- You can live in a multi-million dollar apartment or mansion, but you cant have fun unless you know how to have fun. There are some guys out there who are better at having fun and making the best of any situation then others. If you have free time and are just sitting around, then you are wrong. You have to go out and make the best of your situation.

If I gave you a bank account of a million dollars and dropped you off in France in a hotel for a month long vacation. Could you have fun?

3) Positive/forward thinking- If its cold and snowing, then you say to yourself its great for skiing. Some people might turn it into a negative situation, but you have to make it positive. Whatever happens in life, try to spin it positive...if possible.

4) Doing what you enjoy doing- We all enjoy certain things in our lives. You have to do what you want to do.

5) Fitness- No explanation needed. If you are healthy, then you will be more happy then not.
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Great stuff, all true and anybody that thinks not is seriously misguided.
 
Weird. you keep insisting that I have a social problem just because I disagree with you. I am sure I can make many more friends than you can.

Also, I do not believe in utopia in this world. I actually feel sorry for you!
 
I am not set in my opinion not at all and, you see, you are turning this around on me. This discussion is not about myself, but you seem so concerned about talking about me. You have mentioned my financial situation, my trading situation and how I get along with others. You have assumed various things about myself. All of your assumptions are negatively slanted. You realize, you never met me, you dont know me and yet you are making broad based negative assumptions. This is kind of alarming because this is how discriminatory behavior festers in America, but that is another story that I will skip over in the best interests of time. Lets just say your line of thinking in that regard is less then honorable. You should never make assumptions about people you do not know. Its simply not right.

Let me explain why you are trying to turn this discussion around on me. About 25 years ago, I was promoted to overseeing an oil platform in the gulf. I knew my job, but had no management experience. They sent me to an in-house management academy and this was one of the scenarios. You point out a problem situation with the employee and then they turn the situation around in order to distract attention away from their issues. Do you not think that you are trying to distract us away from your own issues by pointing out my situation (which you assumed and dont really know)?

In your original message, you belittled family members because they were laughing at you for your decisions. You said that money seems to matter a great deal towards your happyness. I assert that you are totally wrong in that regard. Money has absolutely nothing to do with happyness.

I can take you right now to a poor village in the Philippines where no one has a dime, but everyone seems to be smiling and fairly happy. Would money make them more comfortable? The answer to that question is money would make them more comfortable, but it would not make them happy. What makes them happy is quality personal relationships and how they look at the world. Everywhere I took my motorcycle in the Phils, everyone seemed to be smiling. Same thing in Thailand.

Money can only make my surroundings nicer and more comfortable, it will not make me happy and it has nothing to do with being happy.

As for my personal situation, thanks for your concern. I am doing well where I am and happy in life. However, my situation has nothing to do with your issues. Focus on yourself and do not turn the tables in order to provide a distraction.





Quote from MJ888:

I am very happy with where I am in my life. I am in a very happy relationship. My relationship with my family is a very good one even though some do not agree with my choice of career. And that is fine. I am not upset that someone does not agree with how I live. Everyone is entitled to their opinion.

It is very clear in my ealrier statements that I do not think money is everything. However, it is a very important part of daily life. Being poor is quite stressful too. Being poor can also result in bad health and not being able to get the quality medical care. In my opinion, I would rather have money than live in a ghetto. Do you feel that is so wrong?

Wow! retaildaytrader, you consider me suggesting that you sound bitter an attack or an insult? And as for all your examples, I have traveled to many cities in the world and I have had no problems getting along with people or making friends. I actually think you may have a problem getting along with others because you are so set in your opinion that you refuse to acknowledge that there actually is another way.

Please explain to us here why you have such a negative view on trading?

Be healthy and happy!
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