Gun control: some surprising facts

[BSAM]

Quote from Lucrum:

So you're prepared to correct my "wrong" statements with facts?

Or just more of your uninformed opinions?

Let me just quote brother Jcl.

"If you don't like facts, just don't read on."

 

[BSAM]

Quote from Ricter:

...Going further, I'd like to see the poor, who are probably going to need them some day, and this includes the soon-to-be-poor (who may not see it coming yet), get ten times as many guns and ten times as much ammo as they have today.

Maybe Obama will give them a government debit card to make those purchases.
"Guns for votes."
Or, maybe brother Eric Holder will make the arrangements.
He's good at that, ya know.

 

[Lucrum]

Quote from BSAM:

Let me just quote brother Jcl.

"If you don't like facts, just don't read on."

I've posted dozens of gun related facts in the last two weeks. Not one, not one has been refuted. Not by you or any other pro gun control member here.

So again I ask, will you be pointing out my "errors" with facts?
Or just more uninformed opinions and fancy foot work?

 

[Ricter]

Quote from BSAM:

Maybe Obama will give them a government debit card to make those purchases.
"Guns for votes."
Or, maybe brother Eric Holder will make the arrangements.
He's good at that, ya know.

Not sure how or if it could happen, but it sure won't happen under a plutocrat. Conflict of interest.

 

[377OHMS]

Quote from jcl:

Germany has gun control, the US have not. As I lived in both countries and can see the effects, here's some real facts of the consequences of gun control. If you don't like facts, just don't read on.

- Gun control will NOT solve the problem of gun massacres. In Germany, we had similar massacres by kids with guns in schools and elsewhere.

- Gun control will NOT reduce the crime rate. There's about the same crime rate in Germany and the US.

- Gun control will reduce the murder rate. The US have 4 times the homicide rate of Europe.

- Gun control will NOT prevent you from getting a gun. You can get guns legally in Germany by being a hunter or joining a gun club, or get them otherwise on the black market.

- Gun control will take guns away from the bad guys. That's because they are more expensive and harder to get. Contract killers still use guns in Germany, but burglars or street gangs don't.

- Gun control will support more intelligent gun owners. In the US, gun owners shoot themselves with their own guns all the time. This does not happen in Germany.

I could personally live with or without gun control, as I consider it not very important. This might be different for the victims. For me, the main advantage of gun control is that you can better fight back in a crime situation. If I confront a burglar in my home in Germany, I can just go after him with a broomstick. In the US, I would certainly not engage in a gunfight with an armed burglar.

1) True

2) True

3) True

4) Nonsense

5) True

6) Nonsense

7) Utter bullshit

This original post is 42.8% eurotrash garbage.

"If I confront a burglar in my home in Germany, I can just go after him with a broomstick."

LOL.

 

[PiggyBank]

Quote from Ricter:

Gun control of course works, we have current examples of it. But society-wide it's too late, the genie is outta the bottle.

Going further, I'd like to see the poor, who are probably going to really need them some day, and this includes the soon-to-be-poor (who may not see it coming yet), get ten times as many guns and ten times as much ammo as they have today.

So really Ricter, are you dreaming of marxist revolution? I can't help but remember just a week or so ago you were all for one pistol and one rifle ONLY.. but now you want the poor to arm themselves so they can take what's 'theirs' when the time comes?

 

[AAAintheBeltway]

Quote from jcl:

I can't comment on the UK laws, but I can comment on similar German law. You're allowed to defend your property, but not with deadly force. You can arrest a burglar, but it's unlawful to shoot at him as long as he doesn't attack you.

However, the law acknowledges that you might be in a panic situation. The juristic term is "Notwehrexzess". If you shoot an unarmed burglar, you will not be convicted, even though it was against the law. The only exception is when you're clearly not in danger. In a recent case someone shot and killed a fleeing burglar as he was jumping over the fence. That person was sentenced to prison.

The life of a person, even a burglar, is assigned a higher value than property by the law. You can be of different opinion, but it makes sort of sense to me.

In the US, what you can do legally to an intruder varies state by state. Most states in the south and west have what is know as the castle doctrine, meaning you can use deadly force to defend your home, ie castle, but generally the laws do require some apprehension of danger. If you surprise a burglar and he makes a run for the door, generally you would not be able to shoot him as he is fleeing. Of course, who's to say he was really fleeing? Others basically give you a free pass to shoot someone who is committing a crime on your property, the theory being that they put themselves into the situation and why should the innocent party have to take a risk.

Other states without the castle doctrine generally would require a reasonable fear of bodily harm or death before deadly force could be used. Virtually all states however take a very dim view of invading an occupied residence at night. It's not going to take much to satisfy the police or a judge that you had a very real fear and took appropriate action.

I would say the general attitude in the US makes a distinction between property, like cars for example, and your house. You cannot just shoot someone who is attempting to steal your car, even if they refuse to stop when you order them to. You have to be under a reasonable fear of harm yourself.

 

[PHOENIX TRADING]

Quote from jcl:



If I confront a burglar in my home in Germany, I can just go after him with a broomstick. In the US, I would certainly not engage in a gunfight with an armed burglar.

Really, so the buglers in Germany are stupid or are you saying someone who breaks the law on breaking and entering and theft is somehow inclined to be fastidious about following the law when it comes to illegal weapons?

 

[Ricter]

Quote from PiggyBank:

So really Ricter, are you dreaming of marxist revolution? I can't help but remember just a week or so ago you were all for one pistol and one rifle ONLY.. but now you want the poor to arm themselves so they can take what's 'theirs' when the time comes?

I'm not dreaming of Marxist revolution, but the history of the world does indicate that societies which continue to stratify end with violent uprisings, and it's typically the poor who pay the highest price in blood.

At any rate, I'm on board with abandoning more gun control, that's the main thing.

 

[jcl]

Quote from PHOENIX TRADING:

Really, so the buglers in Germany are stupid or are you saying someone who breaks the law on breaking and entering and theft is somehow inclined to be fastidious about following the law when it comes to illegal weapons?

I have not asked any burglars why they don't carry guns. If you think really hard, you might find the answer yourself. A hint: It could have something to do with the black market gun prices. Or maybe with the unlikeliness of being shot at by a home owner.