Grinding it out, day after day

Corey,

Your post says a great deal about your strength of character and confidence in yourself and your market approach. Thanks for sharing this with us.

Your insights are a great asset and hopefully we all can absorb those into our own approaches and use them to benefit our own trading.

I hope that time between thinking of Thursday gets long to almost never -- quickly.
 
Wow that blows. My condolences, but you'll make it back and more. I've had a few large hits to the PnL. In my experience, it takes me at least a week to recover mentally and get back in the groove.
 
There is obviously comfort in knowing it was an administrative error and not a trading edge deterioration. Although yeah, its still a ton of cash. It stings I can imagine.
 
Lescor,

Thanks for this thread. Your insights in general principles of RTM trading and psychology of trading have been great.

Upon reading your last post, I thought of a way to perhaps prevent the error that happened. Some prop firms have Soft Buying Power vs. Actual Buying Power. Soft Buying Power is the amount of buying power you can use for sending out orders, and Actual Buying Power is the amount of buying power that will be used to fill orders. For example, you could have $10M soft buying power (send out $10M worth of orders) and $2M actual buying power(Get filled a maximum of $2M in buying power). So if an operator error occurred, you could be filled on no more than $2M in orders. You would still be hurt, but not as bad as if you were filled all $10M.

I don't know if you are already using this, and not familiar with Echo software to know if they have this option. I used to trade with Dimension's Blackwood software and know they have this option. It's not the best trading platform, but they have this option. I'm sure you'll be fine, when the money tap opens again.

Achinnes
 
Quote from lescor:

A little different weekly update to report this time.

Monday was uneventful, +4k. As I mentioned earlier I got clocked pretty good on Tuesday, -18k. A couple really bad trades, those outliers that just happen. They are part of the system and how I trade. They happen and I am ok with that.

Wednesday I got nailed in some INTC earnings-related trades, -7k Maybe a bit of poor judgment or oversight on my part. INTC was up a lot pre-market and I didn't adjust properly for some related stocks and hot hit. That happens too, it's part of the risk of how I trade and earnings season for me is largely about trying to avoid those sector related stocks that aren't always easy to discern.

Friday was really good, +15k. Had a couple good shorts early and the system kept me in as the market sold off. Made about 4 or 5k on the spike in intraday volatility caused by the GS news. Felt like a little slice of the good old days for a couple hours.

But the week was all about Thursday. -81k, over 1.8M shares traded. The single greatest risk with how I trade is operator error or some kind of major system malfunction. I send 1000's of orders before the open fishing for good opening prints. I only get filled on a tiny fraction of these, often times well under 1%. To mitigate the gargantuan risk of something going drastically wrong with this order volume, I've built in all kinds of fail safes and red flags to alert me to any kind of problem before I hit 'send'. Well on Thursday I found a hole in my defense and it bit me pretty hard.

I operate very much by rote in the pre-market. I have a routine that I don't waver from. It makes me efficient with all the pre-open prep I do and it reduces the risk of screw ups or forgetting something. It's so routine that I don't even remember doing this, but I somehow copied and pasted the wrong prices into the wrong column on the wrong spreadsheet, thus sending 1000's of orders at prices that were completely out to lunch. It was just a total brain fart.

The volume of fills and messages overwhelmed my system causing freeze ups and slow downs as I frantically tried to cancel all remaining orders. It was a couple minutes before I could do more than pound my fist and curse. When the remaining orders canceled I was left with over 250 positions, almost all short. Some of these stocks are pretty thin, especially in a sleepy market, and I created some big gap down opens. Of course the market just ticked higher non-stop. Even with the odd tiny pull back my pl just kept getting worse because I was short all kinds of stuff at terrible prices. All I could do was slice up my positions and try to exit as gingerly as I could. I was screwed from the get go, no doubt about it. It took about 45 minutes to get flat and the market never did anything but slowly and tortuously grind higher the whole time.

I've made these kinds of errors a few times over the years. Each time it causes me to re-think my approach, analyze ways to tighten up the system and consider if the reward is worth the risk. It's been 2 1/2 years since I've had one of these and I thought I had all the bases covered pretty well. I've already figured out what to do to prevent this specific error from happening again. The bottom line is that the system is not broken, it was 100% operator error. Looking back at this system for the past several years shows that even with this kind of risk, it is worth it to continue. But I won't lie, it was really hard to come in the next day and go through all the motions again and fire off all those orders. But for my mental state and to get over the debacle, I had to do it.

For me, mental recovery is measured by how long I can go without thinking about it. For the rest of the day I don't think I made it more than 15 minutes. Three days later now and I think I'm doing pretty good in getting over it. Writing this post actually helps.

Lescor,

Sorry to hear about the mishap. Hang in there. As I am sure you know, operator error is part of the business. It happens to me at least once a year and I just chalk it up to a business expense/cost of doing business.
 
Brain fart or internal trader-self desperately asking for something?.

When is the last time you took a vacation?.

None of my business. I know.

Every time I ignore my trader-self, he soon reminds me who is boss.
 
As a "rule of thumb", would it be safe to say that most high volatility traders biased toward short intraday positions, while lower volatility traders are inclined to enter long intraday positions?... With that premise in mind, other than market fundamentals, I don't know of a way to project the VIX...

Walt
 
What if this had happened back in Oct. '08? Your system sounds very sophisticated by the sheer volume you are trading.
Maybe that is why I remain a small lot trader, there is not enough ice water running in my veins and the emotional hangover is just too hard on me.
 
down almost -90K, I understand that this is one of your record negative weeks. as i recall, you had a day like that in 2008, but at that time it was the market that caused it not the operator. also in 2008 you could have a couple of good days and get it all back. so this one is a tougher one. also, physiologically, an operator error is probably harder to handle than a market dependent event.

good to see you handle it well, you are a firefighter after all!
 
Quote from shortie:

down almost -90K, I understand that this is one of your record negative weeks. as i recall, you had a day like that in 2008, but at that time it was the market that caused it not the operator. also in 2008 you could have a couple of good days and get it all back. so this one is a tougher one. also, physiologically, an operator error is probably harder to handle than a market dependent event.

good to see you handle it well, you are a firefighter after all!


Yes he is mentally tough, net through end of March 200,000 and lost almost half of that in 1 day. I am sure he will make it back in no time. Great thread as it shows what traders go through.
 
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