Grinding it out, day after day

Dear Lescor,

You mentioned making money in the equity markets is better because of equity inefficiencies compared to futures market where it's harder because the futures markets were too efficient.

Can you please elaborate as to what you refer to and possibly even list some detailed examples as to what exactly is an inefficiency ?

Thanks a million.

No Heat
 
Lescor, I'm just wondering what makes you more nervous.. Running into a burning building or the chance of a power outage when you're in a sizeable trade?

:p

I look forward to following the thread!
 
I trade with Echotrade.

I've been very fortunate to work on system development with some good trader friends who were also programmers or have a programmer working for them. I bring forward a strategy, we work on refining it and they code it up and we test it and share what we're learning and seeing. We both come out ahead as a result. These are fairly low level systems, not overly complex as far as trading code goes. Really, it's a stretch to call myself an "automated trader". I use some automation to assist me, but for the most part it's just a tool to help speed things up.

Futures vs. stocks- I've never put any effort into trying to trade futures, so maybe I'm not the guy to ask. I think there are just so many more opportunities in stocks due to the sheer number of symbols. Things move a lot more due to news, liquidity restraints, etc. How many futures contracts move 5, 10 or 20% in a couple minutes? It happens dozens of times a day in the equity world. Ever seen a stock with panicked shorts trying to cover in the face of news? Or longs who finally puke out their stock with a market order at the bottom of a big move because they can't take the pain any more? Those situations are driven by emotion. And emotion, at the extremes, is inherently inefficient. I've never seen examples like that in a futures market.

I just know that I personally know many very profitable stock traders, but I know exactly zero profitable futures traders. They're definitely out there and I'm not saying you can't get rich trading futures, I'm just not convinced that it's easier than stocks. Just my opinion.
 
Quote from lescor:

Futures vs. stocks-
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A funny coincidence that we are making the same argument on the same day in different threads...

Quote from Dustin:

Trading ES or something similar is like becoming a race car driver and heading straight for Nascar. You are competing against the best there are and you will lose. On the other hand equities provide situations every day that you can at least attempt to exploit (opg's, moc's, error trades, volume climaxes, breakouts etc). In more volatile times ('07-08) equities became extremely inefficient and edges were abundant, especially in the reversion category.

You are welcome to try to trade any market you like, but I believe the success rate in equities to be multiples higher than futures, commodities, and options.
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Quote from Dustin:

A funny coincidence that we are making the same argument on the same day in different threads...
More...

Understand what you are trying to say, however, it is too general a statement without supporting facts.

Personally, I have always felt relaxed and confident (in control) trading equities...not day trading.

NiN
 
Quote from lescor:

I trade with Echotrade.


I just know that I personally know many very profitable stock traders, but I know exactly zero profitable futures traders. They're definitely out there and I'm not saying you can't get rich trading futures, I'm just not convinced that it's easier than stocks. Just my opinion.
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mmmmmmmmmmm - we embrace the zero-sum arena - highly efficient deployement of equity capital - no uptick rules - no insiders - no manipulative MM's or strong pool - 23hours open. Its an arena where all men are equal. There more than 60 liquid instruments to choose from- tight spreads-
 
Quote from Shagi:

mmmmmmmmmmm - we embrace the zero-sum arena - highly efficient deployement of equity capital - no uptick rules - no insiders - no manipulative MM's or strong pool - 23hours open. Its an arena where all men are equal. There more than 60 liquid instruments to choose from- tight spreads-
More...

*drool* :cool:
 
Quote from volente_00:

"The one defining characteristic of successful traders is their refusal to quit in the face of adversity"


Did you ever read about a frog who dreamed of bein' a king
And then became one
Well except for the names and a few other changes
I you talk about me, the story's the same one

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7wYpVy9W29M&feature=related

ahh the memories of beautiful music...
 
I'm a bit befuddled. Many claim that the futues index (i.e. ES) is much more difficult to trade than the equity markets because you're trading with "pros", it's a very efficient market, it's choppy, etc., etc. However, I find it comforting to know that the market is efficient and choppy, as there are bona fide strategies that do very well in such environments, particularly with good risk & position management.

I'm actually quite afraid for highly volatile stocks because of their unpredictability. I understand that often times such stocks will "overreact" to news & events, which make them ideal for mean-to-reversion strategies; however, there are many instances when they don't revert (at least not in time for a intraday trader)...

It would be great if the ES became so efficient that one could be assured of range bound price action on 4 out of 5 trading days. As Don Bright says, "if it's repeatable, then it's beatable". Although his prop firm trades equities almost exclusively, such an axiom is applicable to any market.

So, if you know of any market more "efficient" that ES, please do tell...

Walt
 
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