Grinding it out, day after day

[hermit]

Quote from billyjoerob:

I don't have that kind of cash to casually throw around, so sorry no bet.

It's interesting that so many people defend the OP even though a) they have no idea how he trades and b) there are no demonstrated results and c) he trades such a small amount.

What evidence is there, other than his boasts, to believe his numbers?

Firstly, there are things called blotters which are basically concise account statements.

Secondly, its quite easy to determine a trader's worth by what they talk and how they talk about things that matter.

Thirdly, you seem to be adamant on flaming the guy for things you do not understand and at the same time you promote questionable salesmen. Irony is that you talk about size and then use a penny stock trader for comparision.

 

[hermit]

Quote from billyjoerob:

He hasn't said anything about his strategies, so I don't know what you're talking about. He's said that he trades a little bit of this, little bit of that, keep it simple, he's got six strategies, some futures but mostly stocks, some are reversion to the mean, etc.

He's said nothing specific . . . Except that he expects to AVERAGE 40% per month.

Looks like you are trying to fish for specifics by flaming, classic tactic. :eek:

 

[trend2009]

I have a strategy that made 200% per year continuously for two years until it hits the liquidity issue. so you see, if you have a winning strategy, you can not make as much money as you wish. if I take unused money of my account, my return is still 200% per year.

Quote from billyjoerob:

He hasn't said anything about his strategies, so I don't know what you're talking about. He's said that he trades a little bit of this, little bit of that, keep it simple, he's got six strategies, some futures but mostly stocks, some are reversion to the mean, etc.

He's said nothing specific . . . Except that he expects to AVERAGE 40% per month.

 

[bears21]

Quote from lescor:

Have you ever tried to trade 10,000 shares in a stock that does 300,000 shares a day? I already lose hundreds of dollars a day in slippage at the size I trade now. In the stock world disappearing liquidity and thin markets are major constraints when it comes to putting capital to work.

Your argument is a common one here on ET. People assume you can just mathematically compound numbers to infinity and that anyone who has or claims to have a winning system would therefor "own the universe" after a while. But it's a ridiculous claim for a few reasons.

The advantage of a small trader is their size. They can utilize strategies that money managers working with large amounts simply can't entertain because they have no hope of entering the market without completely distorting it. If they tried, guess who would be there to take advantage of the distortion and pick them off? Yup, the little guys like me. They get screwed on their order and a bunch of other small traders make money.

Sure if I traded ultra liquid markets like treasuries, forex, ES and the like, I could compound quite a bit before size would become a problem. But those are the most competitive markets for just that reason.

With the strategies that I trade, at some point built up profits become "excess cash" that can't be used. I have to either wait for more opportunity through increased volatility, I can move the cash outside a trading account and do something with it like invest it, or I can deploy it into different strategies. Unfortunately those just don't drop into your lap when you need them.

corey i couldnt agree with you more on inefficiencies that are available in the equity markets. i trade very very illiquid markets for a living avg about 1k to 2k a day over the past 5 years. but i feel capped because the stocks i am trading have avg volume of less than 50k a day. i dont feel like i cant get too big in these stocks for the reason of fear of a counter program knowing my position and running it the other way. i try to lay low and pick off their order flow. the only way i could see making large dough in these illiquid stocks is being the person who is doing the manipulating but that could mean having 10 million plus in bp. this way you have the ability to fully control these stocks by yourself for days and weeks on end waiting for liquidity such as dark pools etc to exit these illiquid positions without distorting the price too much.

 

[Moneyball]

Quote from billyjoerob:

He's said nothing specific . . . Except that he expects to AVERAGE 40% per month.

Actually, he's said nothing of the sort. What he's given is a dollar amount that he expects to average, and since you obviously don't know anything about prop trading or leverage, you backed out a percentage. His prop account has approx. $110K in it, but his firm extends him several times that amount in leverage (I know traders with that amount in their accounts who have $10MM in buying power or more). He also said he has a retail account with more than that amount in it, which you conveniently left out of your "calculations".

This is why prop traders don't normally talk in terms of percentages because it doesn't give you an accurate picture. He has $110K in his account, but there will be times where he is using none of that money, there will be times where he is using a couple hundred thousand dollars in buying power, and there will be times where he will be using several million dollars in buying power. He has more than enough buying power available to him to max out his strategies, that's why he doesn't have more money in his account- it's unnecessary with the leverage that he has. Not to rehash an old argument, but last time I checked, you spend dollars, not percentages, anyway.

Please stop trolling, this is one of the very few good threads here.

 

[Dustin]

Quote from billyjoerob:

I'm well aware of the distinctino between roa and roe. News for you: ROE is all that matters.

Billy you're not getting it. Corey uses a LOT more leverage than his $100k+ account size to generate returns. Your 20-40% arguments hold no water...please stop with the thread pollution.

 

[leon7]

ROE/ROA and etc. percentage numbers only matter for CEOs, accountants, shareholders, analysts and etc.

For people trading own money for living matter real live absolute numbers by end of every month to pay bills or invest somewhere else...

 

[ammo]

personally, i think lescor dumbed down the amount he makes, 1000 -2000 a day is not a large amount

 

[illiquid]

Quote from billyjoerob:

I'm well aware of the distinctino between roa and roe. News for you: ROE is all that matters.

News for you: if you've ever had to depend on your own trading p/l, day in, day out, to put food on the table and pay the rent, you'd realize % return, ROE, any friggin acronym you can think of, is entirely BULLSHIT. It all comes down to how much you pull out of the markets, each and every month.

In a prop account, you can have 10k "equity" in your account but make 20K in a single session, given enough (not insane) leverage. You can make six-figures off this 10k "equity" in a month if you're really good -- but do you think these traders really sit there thinking how far they can compound? The equity markets are NOT as liquid as people think. You don't just scale up from 1k share positions to 5k share positions and think your p/l will go up proportionally. The advantage of prop trading is that you don't need to keep alot of capital locked up to earn your living; it would not be suprising to me at all if a 7-figure/year trader kept only say 25K in his account and swept out the rest monthly to achieve his goals. Remember, it's all intraday leverage.

One thing's for sure, you can really spot from these threads who actually trades for a living and who just dreams/imagines/fantasizes from afar.

 

[lescor]

BillyJoeBob- a quick perusal of your posting history reveals you are quite a newb when it comes to trading, with some pretty classic newb views on how things 'should work'.

This thread is about an experienced professional trader showing some insight into how things actually do work in our world. There are lots of guys doing the same thing as me making similar returns and many who can trade circles around me.

Tell ya what, let's just chalk your posts in this thread up to ignorance. I'll give you a free pass. Take some time and learn about prop trading, there is no shortage of info on it on this site. Then come back and we'll have an informed two-sided discussion and you can point out the folly in my claims. I'm being polite in saying you have no clue what you're talking about.