Greenspan `Made a Mess' and U.S. Risks Recession, Stiglitz Says

Someone's always a scapegoat. Economies are CYCLICAL!! Deal with it!! The western world is too obsessed with cause effect.

Quote from ASusilovic:

Joseph Stiglitz, a Nobel-prize winning former World Bank economist, said the U.S. economy risks tumbling into recession because of the subprime crisis and a ``mess'' left by former Federal Reserve Chairman Alan Greenspan.

``I'm very pessimistic,'' Stiglitz said in an interview in London today. ``It's not just the housing sector. Over the last five to six years our economy has been bolstered by the real estate sector.

``Americans have been taking money out of their houses to finance a consumption binge,'' Stiglitz said. ``Last year alone mortgage equity withdrawal was between $850 billion to $950 billion. That game is over.''

Stiglitz said that the U.S. faces ``a very major slowdown, maybe recession.''

``Alan Greenspan really made a mess of all this,'' Stiglitz said. ``He pushed out too much liquidity at the wrong time. He supported the tax cut in 2001, which is the beginning of these problems. He encouraged people to take out variable rate mortgages. That helped create the subprime crisis.''

http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601087&sid=aqZxFlbToZZA&refer=home
 
Quote from Tracy McGreedy:

"... Economies are CYCLICAL!! Deal with it!! The western world is too obsessed with cause effect.

That's not true any more. Since 1982, when the Fed put the money-pump on overdrive, they've almost had to cook the books to indicate "we might have had a mild recession"... that could be as little as 2 quarters of 0.1% contraction.

It's been pedal-to-the-metal money-pump and much, MUCH higher inflation than they have admitted for 25 years.... no end in sight, either.

:mad:
 
Quote from gnome:

True about the "huge decrease", however over time we can cope with losing 95% of the Dollar's buying power through inflation. However, at some point [like maybe soon], the decline goes parabolic and nobody can keep up. It has happened over and over throughout history. ALWAYS has ended the same... will be no different this time.

I don't necessarily believe the dollar is "artificially high"... politicos have argued that for their own short term, short sighted, greedy personal gain.

I doubt we would have seen "collapse"... recession probably. NECESSARY recession. With the present money-pump escalation, economic collapse gets ever closer to "virtually assured"... just postponed.

Gomen for quoting myself...

Depending upon the source quoted, the $USD has lost between 93% and 99% of its buying power since the creation of the Fed (everybody realize that?... probably not)

We've coped with the Dollar's devaluation through inflation. That's how when the WSJ first came out, it cost $.02. Now, $2.50.

Today a cart of groceries can easily cost $200. What happens when that becomes $2,000? Then, $20,000? People's investments and income won't be able to keep up with that and they will suffer a severe decline in standard of living.

You say "can't happen"? Well, history says "it's happened HUNDREDS of times in the past, and IT'S GOING TO HAPPEN TO US FOR SURE"... unless there is a major change in how bidness is done in America... no sign of change so far.
 
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Quote from ASusilovic:

Joseph Stiglitz, a Nobel-prize winning former World Bank economist, said the U.S. economy risks tumbling into recession because of the subprime crisis and a ``mess'' left by former Federal Reserve Chairman Alan Greenspan.

``I'm very pessimistic,'' Stiglitz said in an interview in London today. ``It's not just the housing sector. Over the last five to six years our economy has been bolstered by the real estate sector.

``Americans have been taking money out of their houses to finance a consumption binge,'' Stiglitz said. ``Last year alone mortgage equity withdrawal was between $850 billion to $950 billion. That game is over.''

Stiglitz said that the U.S. faces ``a very major slowdown, maybe recession.''

``Alan Greenspan really made a mess of all this,'' Stiglitz said. ``He pushed out too much liquidity at the wrong time. He supported the tax cut in 2001, which is the beginning of these problems. He encouraged people to take out variable rate mortgages. That helped create the subprime crisis.''

http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601087&sid=aqZxFlbToZZA&refer=home
 
Quote from gnome:

Personally I think the Powers are scared to death of a recession. Americans are so heavily loaded with debt that a "cleansing" recession could be devastating... large numbers of people unable to service their debts.

However the push to "inflate the Hell out of everything" will buy them some time but ultimately be catastrophic.
I think that's accurate. Delaying the inevitable is a bit like avoiding or postponing necessary medical treatment for fear of pain or discomfort. However, the infection is bound to get worse unless it's dealt with properly, and sooner rather than later. But no one wants to deal with acute discomfort, however necessary it may be. And so, we ignore the puss forming underneath the Band-Aid. Mañana.
 
Quote from Pa(b)st Prime:

Exactly. 90% of traders in 2001-2002 thought that by 2004 people would be selling apples on street corners. The combo of low rates and lower taxes along with a Keynesian pump in Iraq kept this indebted mess chugging right along. People don't realize how important this lower dollar has been for sustained growth.

P.S. Stiglitz is socialist scum. I just love when guy's who are on the public dole argue for higher taxes.
I'm not sure I understand the context of your Keynesian reference. My economics is a bit rusty, but from what I recall, Keynes was an advocate of fiscal policy, meaning taxing and spending how and where appropriate. The Bush administration has screwed up on both ends. I doubt that Keynes ever conceived of debt spending into oblivion while cutting taxes (especially at a time when the ostensible economic fundamentals, as provided by the government, did not warrant such tax cuts in the face of mounting deficits).
 
We have the best politicians money can buy.Look at how much money they spend to get in and stay in the system.Power and sex alone can't justify spending so much. THEY TAKE CARE OF THEMSELVES AND EXPECT THE REST OF US TO MUDDLE THROUGH!. Even the Masai don't bleed their cattle to death.:mad:
 
Quote from Pa(b)st Prime:

Gnome the huge decreases in the dollars purchasing power occurred before half this board was born. As for today? If Bush had tried to argue market wise that the dollar should remain artificially high we would have seen an economic collapse.

American's need to face the bitter truth. In the future an hour of our productivity will buy no more access to global goods and services than an hour's work by some guy in New Delhi.

Hence why capital is so important and why it will be so difficult to have access to it in the future.

By the way, those arguing for a gold standard just might get their way - at which point wealth will be largely a dynastic quality.

What did you think the point of Buffet's discussion of meritocracy over plutocracy was about? However, what he failed to recognize was that the meritocracy creates its own plutocracy of meritocrats. Not necessarily an anti-darwinian model, but it probably fails over the long run.

I don't think it will be quite so bad, pabst, but it certainly isn't going to be good.

The chinese will decide if recession occurs. I am eagerly awaiting the context of the third SED with china in december. However, recession here means disaster in china, so I hope they choose wisely, and don't egotistically try a repeat of "The Japan that could say No." Bad idea.
 
Quote from Pa(b)st Prime:

Exactly. 90% of traders in 2001-2002 thought that by 2004 people would be selling apples on street corners. The combo of low rates and lower taxes along with a Keynesian pump in Iraq kept this indebted mess chugging right along. People don't realize how important this lower dollar has been for sustained growth.

P.S. Stiglitz is socialist scum. I just love when guy's who are on the public dole argue for higher taxes.

People don't realize how misleading and temporary "growth" based on borrowing and spending on wasting assets is! And people don't realize how absurd it is to simultaneously champion "low taxes" and sweep inflation under the rug.
 
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