Nice word there, chief! However, I was just pointing out a relevant fact, is all.
Greeks rush through law giving tax amnesties to millions of taxpayers
- Thread starter ASusilovic
- Start date
I have clients in both Cyprus and the Main Land Greece. They are sick to their stomachs as their country has no chance of ever changing, away from the "FREELOADER" mentality that now plagues the USA.
("One London-based investor asked, "If Greece can't raise taxes, how are they going to pay off their debts? This is a cultural problem that many people outside Greece don't appreciate."")
No only did Germany not want to, forced by the Central Back of EU to Lend, but they are taking on massive risk on the bonds they purchased.
The above quote explains it all. It's a cultural problem. Takes Generations to over come and the move by Greece goe's to show, it an't gona happen.
I wouldn't laugh at Greece...we are heading down the same path. The turning point or the fall of the US starts in NOV. We have been declining and the next phase could be the Fall. US will adopt Greece like measures, Amnisty for Housing Amnisty for Unemployment, Amnisty of Healthcare.....FREE for all the FREE LOADERS....wait the US already has and Geither wants more Printed Money.....
("One London-based investor asked, "If Greece can't raise taxes, how are they going to pay off their debts? This is a cultural problem that many people outside Greece don't appreciate."")
No only did Germany not want to, forced by the Central Back of EU to Lend, but they are taking on massive risk on the bonds they purchased.
The above quote explains it all. It's a cultural problem. Takes Generations to over come and the move by Greece goe's to show, it an't gona happen.
I wouldn't laugh at Greece...we are heading down the same path. The turning point or the fall of the US starts in NOV. We have been declining and the next phase could be the Fall. US will adopt Greece like measures, Amnisty for Housing Amnisty for Unemployment, Amnisty of Healthcare.....FREE for all the FREE LOADERS....wait the US already has and Geither wants more Printed Money.....
Who are you calling "mister", Mister? Anyways, not sure what insult it might have been, but, rest assured, none was intended.
hmmmmm...................maybe gyros for lunch?
I have worked for myself, and for Fortune 500 companies in the US. All the type of work I did was paper based - there was no tax evasion, not that I would do it anyway. Thus weekly, I saw my pay get slashed by various government entities... Federal, State, City wage, Social Security, Medicare....
Living in Greece, what I am seeing and what I have heard blows me away.
Doctors and Lawyers with yachts and 500 Mercedes Benzs declaring salaries of 30-40K a year. All sorts of stores exist that ask you after purchasing a big ticket item: you want a receipt for that? They prefer not to give you a receipt, so they don't declare the income.
There is also a farm subsidy here. Farmers would send their sheep over to other farmers so they can be double counted for a larger subsidy.
It was chaos. But it's over now. Now the pendulum is swinging the other way. And hard. People are getting audited, most businesspeople are getting hit with an arbitrary tax figure - triple to quadruple what they have been assessed in the past. Undercover gov't officials are looking for shopkeepers that do not issue receipts...
Problem is, Greece is going through severe debt deflation. Very few are making the money they used to, and are getting creamed with taxes.
This is accelerating the depression, IMO. Many shops are closing, banks are lending less, and the unemployment rate is growing.
Now how the hell is Greece supposed to economically "grow out" of the existing debtload? I believe the gdp is taking a massive hit, and although tax revenues are increasing, it will be a mere bump in the long term. In the long term, there will be a lot less to collect, yet the debt continues to grow...
Morality and Ethics aside, this tax amnesty may make sense. If full back taxes are aggressively collected, in an environment where Greece does not control its currency and can't devalue, and in an environment of debt destruction, then Greece is committing economic suicide.
Problem is, it may have already.
You can only draw so much blood before the patient passes out.
It's no longer a question of fairness or morality. Don't get me wrong, too many people were gaming the system and I don't condone that.
Living in Greece, what I am seeing and what I have heard blows me away.
Doctors and Lawyers with yachts and 500 Mercedes Benzs declaring salaries of 30-40K a year. All sorts of stores exist that ask you after purchasing a big ticket item: you want a receipt for that? They prefer not to give you a receipt, so they don't declare the income.
There is also a farm subsidy here. Farmers would send their sheep over to other farmers so they can be double counted for a larger subsidy.
It was chaos. But it's over now. Now the pendulum is swinging the other way. And hard. People are getting audited, most businesspeople are getting hit with an arbitrary tax figure - triple to quadruple what they have been assessed in the past. Undercover gov't officials are looking for shopkeepers that do not issue receipts...
Problem is, Greece is going through severe debt deflation. Very few are making the money they used to, and are getting creamed with taxes.
This is accelerating the depression, IMO. Many shops are closing, banks are lending less, and the unemployment rate is growing.
Now how the hell is Greece supposed to economically "grow out" of the existing debtload? I believe the gdp is taking a massive hit, and although tax revenues are increasing, it will be a mere bump in the long term. In the long term, there will be a lot less to collect, yet the debt continues to grow...
Morality and Ethics aside, this tax amnesty may make sense. If full back taxes are aggressively collected, in an environment where Greece does not control its currency and can't devalue, and in an environment of debt destruction, then Greece is committing economic suicide.
Problem is, it may have already.
You can only draw so much blood before the patient passes out.
It's no longer a question of fairness or morality. Don't get me wrong, too many people were gaming the system and I don't condone that.
The Greeks passing tax amnesty while propped by the G20 is no different than Wallstreet awarding record bonuses while collecting TARP/FED money. It's fraud. Bankrupts can't dispose or transfer assets while in the process of being subsidized, or forgiven their debts.
The international community is literally towing the Greeks, and here they are, playing Santa Claus with our money. Since ultimately, its the ECB and IMF that will have to pick up the shortfall in Greek revenue. It's indefensible.
As for the rest of it, Greece is done. They're running an economy on borrowed money with rampant tax evasion. Shall we bail them out in perpetuity so Greece can maintain it's opulent, care-free lifestyle? No. But they can take a 25% GDP hit, and they should. So should the rest of us. The only road to salvation is a gut-wrenching Depression. Not a bail until currencies collapse. Of course, it all benefits short-term political agendas and bankers who desperately need the reflation trade to remain solvent.
A Great Depression is what's needed. Voters, politicians, bankers, and industrialists won't have it. But that's the only thing that can save this sinking ship. And it could work. Gut the budget, expand welfare by 30X times and nobody starves. Then let the chips fall where they may.
The international community is literally towing the Greeks, and here they are, playing Santa Claus with our money. Since ultimately, its the ECB and IMF that will have to pick up the shortfall in Greek revenue. It's indefensible.
As for the rest of it, Greece is done. They're running an economy on borrowed money with rampant tax evasion. Shall we bail them out in perpetuity so Greece can maintain it's opulent, care-free lifestyle? No. But they can take a 25% GDP hit, and they should. So should the rest of us. The only road to salvation is a gut-wrenching Depression. Not a bail until currencies collapse. Of course, it all benefits short-term political agendas and bankers who desperately need the reflation trade to remain solvent.
A Great Depression is what's needed. Voters, politicians, bankers, and industrialists won't have it. But that's the only thing that can save this sinking ship. And it could work. Gut the budget, expand welfare by 30X times and nobody starves. Then let the chips fall where they may.
^^ What's the alternative? Print until currencies flush then re-peg under a new "gold standard"? The "Amero", perhaps? Everyone gets 10 cents on the dollar? Deflation happens regardless. Always has. We're just kicking the can down the road here...
