Greece
- Thread starter maxitronixy
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Quote from Misthos:
and then one day, after reaching such spectacular heights of power, civilization, and wealth, they realized it's not really worth it. So they invented the siesta - and also focused on food, fashion, music, and casual strolls on the piazza.
The Anglo Americans and Northern Europeans didn't evolve to that point. They hatched a villainous plan to overtake these "slow and lazy" countries. They indebted these "poor" countries all the while, these "PIGS" (Portugal, Italy, Greece, and Spain)consumed the economic output of their more industrious neighbors.
And you know what else? well... I think it's siesta time. I'll finish this post mañana (tomorrow).
something too,
we studied this concept in cultural cross analysis on a human level and a social / sexual level too. It is absolutely amazing the concepts that are discussed in B School, from the narrow perspective of a Colonizing nation's perspective. So from a highly defined and narrow perspective this discussion continues.
It has been observed that these PIGS or Cultural Nations also had another factor to busy themselves, and as a result of no longer trying to impose their cultural government upon other conquered nations turned to their women and womanly pursuits. As a result (not a logical one for one point over point discussion, hence these qualified statements) their women had the wealth, leisure and time to enduldge in what comes naturally, almost all day long, and for days at a time. This imposes a heavy burden or reward on a culture and their national pursuit then becomes one of love, lust and art instead of conquest, industry, trade and travel.
Ever wonder why, even until today, the Italy of lore are advertised as wonderful foods?, the idealistic world of Spain / Portugal / Greece are their incredibly beautiful women?
Ever wonder why, even until today, the national ideal of Germany / France / Britain / Netherlands remains industry, manufacturing, process and orderliness, managerial prowess, as if other nations do not have these traits and abilities?
so, you made a statement based on observed fact, its just you didn't know how much further those observations really went
One more thing, want to know why Greece is up the crapper and very few Europeans are wanting to help?
Answer: Greece has not built up European ties...
Sure Greece is in the EU, and sure Greece delivers some products. But by and large Greece is on its own in terms of two way ties. Sure you might argue that Greece has been taken over by Germany... But ask a Spaniard in Mallorca if there are too many Germans.
There will be no way in h**l that Germany will let Spain go down. Cynically put where will Germans go on vacation? Many Germans live in Spain, and many Germans own companies in Spain. Where do you think the fruits and vegetables come from? Spain...
That's why Spain, Portugal, or Italy will not go down and will be bailed out faster than you can say howdy...
Ok so now that the pressure is coming off Greece, we must start the pressure on Portugal, Spain and Ireland...
And the reason for going after Portugal? I was reading in Bloomberg it was due to fact that GDP is not growing fast enough... Give me a freaken break.
As much as I am to bash and lay it into Greece, Greece does need a chance to recover. Yet the market is not giving that.
That's why I am tempted to believe that those betting against Greece will loose their shirts. Because I am tempted to believe that the European's will want to lay one into those betting against Greece.
What really gets me is why is there no pressure on the USD? After all if you look at the books the US is in the same boat as Portugal, and Spain. Oh wait, the rating agencies and so on are in the US...
And the reason for going after Portugal? I was reading in Bloomberg it was due to fact that GDP is not growing fast enough... Give me a freaken break.
As much as I am to bash and lay it into Greece, Greece does need a chance to recover. Yet the market is not giving that.
That's why I am tempted to believe that those betting against Greece will loose their shirts. Because I am tempted to believe that the European's will want to lay one into those betting against Greece.
What really gets me is why is there no pressure on the USD? After all if you look at the books the US is in the same boat as Portugal, and Spain. Oh wait, the rating agencies and so on are in the US...
Eventually, "defict spending destroys"... regardless of how it's papered-over or how long the inevitable is delayed.
I can't think of a single nation example where they eventually "woke up", mended their ways, paid down their debts and returned to financial health.... it's always been a "one-way trip to Hell"... "overspend your frickin' brains out until your currency collapses"... looks like the USA will be no different.
Portugal is a big black hole... the finances are crap and the lack of growth is surely not the only problem...
Quote from Scataphagos:
Eventually, "defict spending destroys"... regardless of how it's papered-over or how long the inevitable is delayed.
I can't think of a single nation example where they eventually "woke up", mended their ways, paid down their debts and returned to financial health.... it's always been a "one-way trip to Hell"... "overspend your frickin' brains out until your currency collapses"... looks like the USA will be no different.
yes you can, and without this digressing into a political partisan worthless discussion, I will say the United States of America]/b] during the last years of the 2nd term of President Clinton.
I remember when we launched or relaunched the 30yr TBond under Reagan and went from being a net creditor to a net debtor nation. There were no particular date / time, such as Dec 7th, 1941 by comparison, but it happened during his administration for a purpose and a specific objective. Those were achieved with astonishing results upon the Communist block of nations, under Reagan. We also resolved inflation, care of Treasury Secy Volcker (hope spelling is close). Once inflation was slayed, the basis was layed for recovery.
We achieved recovery by good financial management and paid off all those 30yr TBonds and retired that trading vehicle entirely, until Bush II brought it back to finance tax cuts to the wealthy and unfunded liabilities that saddled the next administration with trillions of dollars of debts and never disclosed it, just fractions of billions, not the true 2+ trillion it actually is. It didn't matter who won this election, we all inherited these debts way beyond what we were told they were.
We did it before, hopefully, God willing, we will do it again and become a net creditor nation.
Perhaps that vitality and track record are why the USD remains a reserve currency and a repository for China's wealth, and viewed as a temporary financial burden on the US.
let's all hope so. Funny why the Euro is not considered a reserve currency and international trade in OIL are not denominated in Euro.
This move to rate Greece as junk is going to alienate the EU from the rest of the world.
Now there will be no way that Greece will default. The Europeans will look at this and shake their head. It seems that the *American* rating agencies are having it against the Europeans. There will be no way in hell that the ECB will let Greece default! Even Germany will agree with this.
The market made a mistake. Family members will rip each other apart and they will critique. But the moment an external party jumps on the bandwagon the family will the external party to pieces. This is what is going to happen with the EU and Greece. They will circle together and rip to shreds anybody challenging the EU...