Greece Heads for ‘No’ Vote, Raising Risk of Departure From Euro

[loyek590]

if my unemployment rate was 25%, the last thing I would think of doing is raising the retirement age. For many of those 25% their only hope is somebody will retire. If anything, the best way to reduce unemployment is to lower the retirement age and open up some jobs for the unemployed.

hey man, you had your 52 years. Time to move on and let somebody else have a chance.

forced retirement to save the last few remaining pieces of the ever dwindling pie

 

[luisHK]

I see there's a lot of lazy fucks in France, Slovakia and Italy as well. What do you propose we do about that? Send them to Putin?

If Putin wants them, sure, send enough of them away and maybe I along a whole bunch of exiles will be able to move back home. But I doubt Putin would be very welcoming.
Parts of Europe are good instances of how democracies can go wrong, with universal suffrage on one hand those countries get large numbers of people who expect the government not only to steal on their behalf but also sing them lullabies full of "justice" and "wealth redistribution" so on top of the free (but stolen) lunch they can keep a good conscience, and on the other hand government officials who need to please the voting majority.
Beautiful.

 

[loyek590]

if you judge an economy by how many people have food, clothing and shelter...

our parents were The Greatest Generation. They won WWII. We inherited their magnificent economy and pretty much just fucked it up. Now it's time for baby boomers to leave their kids something better than when they found it. And that would be a world where everybody has food, clothing and shelter. Not very magnificent when you compare it to what our parents did, but a simple easily accomplished gift for our children.

 

[i am nobody]

@iamnobody,

the ordinary, working taxpayer will have to pick up the bill of this fiasco. You can bitch about the greeks all you want, but it's the technocrats in Brussels that are the root of this mess. Greece shouldn't have entered the Euro in the first place. Euro-sceptic politicians such as Nigel Farage have warned for this so many times, but were ridiculed and marginalized in the mainstream media.

I am one of these taxpayers, like all Europeans, most Greeks are not taxpayers and never were. Some of them are even not working and have no intention to do so. I pay in the name of solidarity because the Greeks have taken no responsability for their own behavour. That is not the way it should go.
Greece cheated and used American banks to transfer Greek debts elsewhere so that it could manipulate figures to enter the EU. That was the real cause of the problem. The European politicans that accepted Greece in the EU made a big mistake too, but that was after Greece cheated. Greece was the cause, not the European politicians.
I am pro solidarity, but FIRST the victims should take their own responsability. In socialism they only know solidarity, defined by: others should pay for us. The never heard of responability.

 

[i am nobody]

I see those austerity measures worked well for Greece.

Greece never implemented the measures that was agreed on. What we see now is the result of that. For example privatisation was and still is zero, collecting taxes was and still is zero, people still receive a pension that is HIGHER then what they earned when they worked (if they ever worked).... Greece is the only country in Europe were this is possioble. No wonder it went that way. The Greeks, and nobody else is responsible for what happened. And even today they refuse to take action according the agreements that were made.
The only thing they know is asking new money to others, like real socialists. They lost all sense for reality. Proof of that was the celebration after the voting. There was nothing to celebrate. They will understand that when they go to the bank this week.

 

[i am nobody]

I see there's a lot of lazy fucks in France, Slovakia and Italy as well. What do you propose we do about that? Send them to Putin?

You should see the whiole picture. These countries did not receive billions that they never pay back. So they probably use money from other parts of THEIR economy to finance this. Every country is free to do as they wish. Only thing they should think about is that they should take their responsability. Irresponsible behavour should not be rewarded, because right now we reward the Greeks. Why should they do anything if they can get unlimited free money and if they don't receieve enough they blackmail the EU? Give free money to Greece, and France, Slovakia and Italy will soon start too.

 

[Ditch]

You should see the whiole picture. These countries did not receive billions that they never pay back. So they probably use money from other parts of THEIR economy to finance this. Every country is free to do as they wish. Only thing they should think about is that they should take their responsability. Irresponsible behavour should not be rewarded, because right now we reward the Greeks. Why should they do anything if they can get unlimited free money and if they don't receieve enough they blackmail the EU? Give free money to Greece, and France, Slovakia and Italy will soon start too.

The big picture is that the EU experiment is a miserable failure. Any economist can explain why it is impossible to have multiple economies that diverse heavily in innovation level and competitiveness use one currency. So far the Germany economy has profited the most, where the industry of other countries like France is left in the dust. The other major problem of the EU is it's immigration policy. Europe is overrun by uneducated, unassimilated people from primitive cultures that are a huge burden to our societies and drain our social resources. In most EU-countries no wealth whatsoever has been created for the common, working, tax-paying citizen. On the contrary more people than ever are struggling to get by. Big government and big corporations are those who have benefited from the EU. I say to hell with this technocrat's wet dream and bring back the EEC.

 

[i am nobody]

The big picture is that the EU experiment is a miserable failure. Any economist can explain why it is impossible to have multiple economies that diverse heavily in innovation level and competitiveness use one currency. So far the Germany economy has profited the most, where the industry of other countries like France is left in the dust. The other major problem of the EU is it's immigration policy. Europe is overrun by uneducated, unassimilated people from primitive cultures that are a huge burden to our societies and drain our social resources. In most EU-countries no wealth whatsoever has been created for the common, working, tax-paying citizen. On the contrary more people than ever are struggling to get by. Big government and big corporations are those who have benefited from the EU. I say to hell with this travesty and bring back the EEC.

I agree completely that the EU experiment is a big failure. Economically it was impossible to do what they wanted to do. But probably there were other (political or more likely incompetency) reasons why they did what they did. They also have the "advantage" that they never have any responsability for what they do. A manager who makes mistakes like the politicans do would be fired on the spot. Politicians can throw away billions without any problem. They think they have unlimited resources and are playing monopoly. Since the 80's people in Europe started to lose their wealth because of overspending of the governments. In almost every country national debt has risen exponentially, clearly showing the incompetence of politicians to lead a country like a business. Expenses should never systematically exceed income. Overspending was, and still is the general rule. Everywhere there are deficits. A luxury that the taxpayers never had and will never have.

 

[Ditch]

Indeed, and now they are calling for a speedier route to a political union. More government, more taxes, more rules is the only solution these idiots can think of.
Government is the problem, not the solution.

 

[luisHK]

Big government and big corporations are those who have benefited from the EU. I say to hell with this technocrat's wet dream and bring back the EEC.

Far from convinced this is true, I came back to Europe as a still young entrepreneur when the euro was already in place so can't compare much with earlier times, but definitely know a bunch of people, including myself, running small to medium trading companies who profit from an open Europe - this includes UK where one can import and export goods without customs hassle to other parts of the EU.
And it's even easier from the eurozone, where there is no currency exchange issue and the payments are dirt cheap thanks to SEPA payments.
Go back to national barriers and plenty of small companies will be hurt, it's possible they will get profits elsewhere, but the opening of borders for europeans is a success imo.
Why the EU keeps on attracting refugees while some same EU countries scare away investors or top notch professionals is another issue.