Greece asking for $59 billion now, yes more bailouts and absolutely no such thing as failure!!

[volpunter]

It's about disagreeing with humbug my friend

Starting two WORLD WARS is nothing compared to that list of regional wars? Is this thread about Greece or shit-talk the U.S. every chance?

 

[volpunter]

I tell you what will happen to a country that sticks it's nose into every pot there is: rather than subdueing countries and cultures you will unit the whole Arab world against you and they will unleash a jihad that no amount of nuclear arsenal or other measure will be able to do anything against. Your nation is setting itself up for another terrorist attack on American soil that will relegate Sept 11 to a mere firework. Nobody wants to be gamed and controlled yet this is the strategy the US has been applying for decades in the Middle East in its quest for secure oil passage.

(Will I now be on the black list because I said it? I would love to continue to spend parts of my annual holidays in California to benefit the local economies there. )

In economics and political terms of course. And in things like gun control and a republic structure.



This is total BS. Disabled babies have been born on this planet every day for thousands of years but if someone can put a political spin on it they do. No actual evidence for it.



Huh? Taiwan is doing fine. If you feel differently, why don't the Germans sign a mutual defense treaty with them.



As I've said before, Americans complain about government mistakes all the time and I think this is one. However, as time has gone on I'm not so sure. With the Obama administration, it appears that US policy is to keep the Arabs from uniting into yet another powerful nation for the US to deal with. Thus the various pan Arabists have come to early ends through US influence and the US does little to stop ISIS from growing.

And this makes sense as the US competes with Europe. You guys will be the ones who have to deal with ISIS, not the US. We're setting all-time records for oil production, you're the ones who depend on middle eastern oil, not us. It will be you who decide to pick up the pieces in the middle east or not. Good luck! Maybe it isn't in Europe's best interest to have America run their foreign policy for them.



First of all, there were something like a hundred million people killed in those two wars which is far far in excess of anything that's happened before or since. But maybe this is an opportunity to discuss something other than the question "does evil results in other countries imply that US and British policy has been undemocratic with respect to their own citizens".

You shouldn't blame them all of both wars on Germany. Germany was occupied by the US and Britain beginning in 1945 and we forced the Germans to believe grey situations were instead black and white. This has become a permanent part of German culture, LOL. Let me try to reeducate you in the nature of power politics between nations...

Germany certainly didn't start the first world war. The war began when Austria invaded Serbia. Then a series of alliances forced all the big European nations into the war. And they all entered in great enthusiasm with expectation that there would be glory for all and the troops would be back by Christmas (similar to the Franco-Prussian war of around 1870).

People often attribute the beginning of the second world war with the invasion of Poland by Germany. But it should be noted that this was in support of the majority German population in regions which Poland had taken over as a result of the very unfair treaty ending the first world war. And that treaty was obtained by continuing the "starvation blockade" against Germany past November 11, 1918 (when the shooting stopped) until June 28, 1919 (when the treaty was signed). During those extra 6 months of "formal war" about 250,000 Germans starved to death. Of course the German leaders of the second world war remembered all this very well and it effected their policies. But the immediate effect in 1919 was that Germany was forced to give up lands where Germans had lived for 600 years.

Germany demanded the return of Danzig, a city that was 90% German speaking, to Germany. Poland refused. This you probably know. What you might not know is that this was not the only problem the Poles were having at the time. The Poles were having the same problem with the Lithuanians. In fact, Poland included Vilnius, the traditional capital of Lithuania. And the Polish response to this was also militaristic. In 1938 they sent an ultimatum to Lithuania, and, in the face of superior military force, the Lithuanians backed down:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1938_Polish_ultimatum_to_Lithuania

When Czechoslovakia was forced to concede German territory back to Germany in the Munich Agreement of September 30, 1938, the Poles sent an ultimatum to Czechoslovakia to demand a portion of Zaolzie. What I'm saying here is that Poland was not some innocent little country just trying to have peace. They were a warlike and nationalistic state with an authoritarian government that was abusive to minorities. Did you know that they kept prison camps for political prisoners, most notably the Bereza Kartuska concentration camp? This camp also held communist sympathizers. It closed on the day that the Soviets invaded in 1939:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bereza_Kartuska_prison

So this was the peaceful little country that Britain gave a guarantee to go to war "in the event of any action which clearly threatened Polish independence". The result was that it was Britain who declared war on Germany, not vice versa. If Britain hadn't made that stupid guarantee, the stupid Poles might have negotiated with Germany to give up the territories that did not want to be Polish and the matter could have been decided peacefully.

In the event, the USSR and Germany divided Poland but the British declared war only against Germany, not against the USSR. Why do you suppose that was?

What happened with Poland is that the British were pursuing their ancient strategy of "power balancing" in Europe. That is, fight on the side of whoever is weaker. For a couple of centuries that meant fighting against the French, but as Germany grew stronger after roughly 1870, it meant going against German interests. It was a miscalculation on three sides; the result was the obliteration of Germany, incredible damage to Poland, and the end of the British empire.

I'm not arguing here that the Nazis were great guys. They were awful. What I'm pointing out is that the world is an immensely complicated place with no governments run by Mother Theresas or Saints. The fact that the Swiss haven't invaded anyone is easily explained by the fact that they are land locked by bigger countries that could easily conquer therm. They are forced to be peaceful by their own inadequacies.

 

[i960]

I tell you what will happen to a country that sticks it's nose into every pot there is: rather than subdueing countries and cultures you will unit the whole Arab world against you and they will unleash a jihad that no amount of nuclear arsenal or other measure will be able to do anything against. Your nation is setting itself up for another terrorist attack on American soil that will relegate Sept 11 to a mere firework. Nobody wants to be gamed and controlled yet this is the strategy the US has been applying for decades in the Middle East in its quest for secure oil passage.

Okay, let me explain why I think you're getting flak for these anti-US comments. It's because the way you're coming off sends the message that Americans here defend these govt practices and actually agree with them. Guess what? I agree with your comments above about the manipulation of the Middle East leading to a lot of problems and disagree with the American policies *and* I am an American. Many other Americans here and not here also disagree with US foreign policy.

As another poster stated, the US Government != Americans. Sure, we partially elect people (who then appoint others we cannot control). We do not directly set military and foreign policy, you know all of this.

So when you say "unit the whole Arab world against you", save the you and just use the country. The delivery is all wrong for getting the point across without alienating the reader.

 

[galvinlee888]

Just keep bailing them out, no such thing as failure in these new world economies, everyone gets bailed out....Funny how they keep getting extensions and more extensions and more extensions, bet you when Sunday comes and no agreement is made they will still be in the euro zone.....all fluff and hype....imf is probably going to give them triple what they want, because remember everyone gets free bailouts .....

Greece asks for $59B in aid, IMF says it needs more
Christine Seib
5 Hours AgoCNBC.com

711
COMMENTSGreece after details emerged from the reform proposal the debt-stricken country sent to European officials on Thursday, including a reported request for 53.5 billion euros ($59.2 billion) in aid.

Meanwhile, International Monetary Fund (IMF) Chief Economist Olivier Blanchard warned that Greece may require even more debt relief and funding than the 60 billion euros ($66 billion) the fund forecast only a few days ago.

Greece has been given until Sunday by its creditors to come to a reform-and-aid deal or risk exiting the euro zone.

This is worry me most when I see most of the ET in this board say the Greek problem will fix, when herds say the issue will be fixed, the reality is ..

 

[volpunter]

Fair points but I did make that distinction a couple times. Having different opinions is one thing but disrespecting one's own government and denouncing the president to be one's head of state is entirely different. One is a healthy discourse and expressing differences. The other is a gross disrespect if not outright hatred for democracy. This is exactly how the world defines double standards. On one hand the US is out there promoting "democracy" while it's own citizens are more divided than ever but more importantly while it's citizens have lost all respect for democracy. I believe sometimes when you honor freedom of speech too much and give too much credibility to personal freedom of expression you end up with a lot of garbage and crap. That is what is going on in the US right now. Everyone feels entitled and called to express their sometimes outright bizarre views on life and it renders a country numbed because there is no more clear direction.

Okay, let me explain why I think you're getting flak for these anti-US comments. It's because the way you're coming off sends the message that Americans here defend these govt practices and actually agree with them. Guess what? I agree with your comments above about the manipulation of the Middle East leading to a lot of problems and disagree with the American policies *and* I am an American. Many other Americans here and not here also disagree with US foreign policy.

As another poster stated, the US Government != Americans. Sure, we partially elect people (who then appoint others we cannot control). We do not directly set military and foreign policy, you know all of this.

So when you say "unit the whole Arab world against you", save the you and just use the country. The delivery is all wrong for getting the point across without alienating the reader.

 

[i960]

The problem in the US is that even in a country that was apparently founded on power of the people, democracy, and all that - the truth is the people have very little power. The country is both owned and sold out - it's actually quite sad.

It's obviously not a horrible place to live and Americans themselves are not bad people - but there are some serious issues here.

Money, inequality, and lack of real productivity are some of the major issues slowly doing is in and if we keep going down this road there might not be an opportunity to reverse it.

 

[d08]

Starting two WORLD WARS is nothing compared to that list of regional wars? Is this thread about Greece or shit-talk the U.S. every chance?

Regional wars? At least 5 countries are involved now through ISIS - which was founded after US invasion into Middle East and the weapons they use are the ones American military left behind in Iraq. I wouldn't call it a "regional war".

If that is a regional war then so are the world wars as they mostly involved Europe. Japan's actions are its own and can't be blamed on Germany. Also, the first world war was started by Serbs and not Germans.

It's perfectly understandable how most Americans have a very "flowery" view of the actions of the American empire but it's worth pointing out that it's not factual. Similarly, most people in nazi Germany didn't consider their country to be particularly violent or oppressive.

I'd also like to talk about Greece but if you read where this started, people started talking about Germany and the discussion became off-topic. Nobody seemed to mind when "shit-talking" Germany took place but you objected when it was about US.
Blaming Germany is a popular past-time in UK and US but people should remember that Germany is only one of the financiers and it has the backing of over 20 European countries.
I don't see anyone blaming Finns or Latvians although they have an equally tough stance toward Greek fuck-ups, it's always "Germany this and Germany that".

 

[d08]

I propose a 51st state or the Commonwealth of Greece. God knows we wouldnt bitch and moan over such a pittance. We could spill that much whiskey.

All talk. Detroit, Puerto Rico. Apparently you can't spill much whiskey if any at all.

 

[sheda]

Merkel: Greece meeting 'will be decisive'

Oh...

Crucial talks about emergency measures should Greece crash out of the eurozone are cancelled, suggesting a deal could be in sight.

Wow....

This is not specifically the third bailout to be discussed this weekend, it is just the basis of negotiations to organise that third bailout.

Ah..ha ha..had me for a moment there germany I thought you were going to "do something"

 

[d08]

This is total BS. Disabled babies have been born on this planet every day for thousands of years but if someone can put a political spin on it they do. No actual evidence for it.

While I agree with most of your arguments, this one is utter horseshit. Dioxins have been proven to cause birth defects and very high levels of dioxin were found in the soil at US bases and in the breast milk of women in the surrounding areas.
Of course US would never admit to this no matter how many facts you present as that would give way to a lawsuit and the victims would rightfully demand compensation.