great new FX book!

Quote from marketsurfer:

i still take issue with jim's applying the term "bucket shop" to FX dealers.

please see the proper definition here:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bucket_shops


a bucket shop by definition can't exist due to instant qoutes that are available across the board.


surfer
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Wikipedia doesn't say what you said it says.

Nothing in the wikipedia definition disproves or excludes the existence of a bucketshop providing instant quotes.

Debates over definitions of words don't alter the fact that bucketshops profit by making you buy high and sell low, while legitimate brokers profit by helping you buy low and sell high.
 
Quote from jimrockford:

Yes, I agree futures are totally inappropriate for the newbie. FX bucketshops are no solution to this problem. Newbies can trade equity odd lots, and avoid the bucketshop ripoff machine. I think that the availability of odd-lot equity trading should eliminate any possible reasonable advantage of trading with FX bucketshops, even for the small trader.
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unfortunately, the PDT rule eliminated this avenue for the small trader.

it is my thoughts that FX is a great place for an undercapitalized trader to learn the ropes.

surfer
 
From the definition at the url surfer provides, "Today's instant price quotes and executions have eliminated the original scheme . . ." I believe that refers to stocks only and the instant price reporting of exchange-traded equities. If so, the difference between those characteristics of equities trading and the currency quotes offered by fx retailers to their customers could NOT be greater. If anything, the definition -- by all means read it in full -- clinches the points made by JimRockford.
 
Quote from jimrockford:

Wikipedia doesn't say what you said it says.

Nothing in the wikipedia definition disproves or excludes the existence of a bucketshop providing instant quotes.

Debates over definitions of words don't alter the fact that bucketshops profit by making you buy high and sell low, while legitimate brokers profit by helping you buy low and sell high.
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wrong.

they "MAKE" you buy high and "MAKE" you sell low......

sorry, i can't further this discusion with an obvious biased and agenda directed person.

best wishes,

surfer:confused:
 
Quote from Chood:

From the definition at the url surfer provides, "Today's instant price quotes and executions have eliminated the original scheme . . ." I believe that refers to stocks only and the instant price reporting of exchange-traded equities. If so, the difference between those characteristics of equities trading and the currency quotes offered by fx retailers to their customers could NOT be greater. If anything, the definition -- by all means read it in full -- clinches the points made by JimRockford.
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just to clarify, nothing stops one from obtaining multiple quotes from dealers and future markets regarding currencies.

bucket shops existed when this ability was not available.

mr. rockford remains in error by incorectly using this term in the manner presented.

surfer
 
Quote from marketsurfer:

just to clarify, nothing stops one from obtaining multiple quotes from dealers and future markets regarding currencies.

bucket shops existed when this ability was not available.

mr. rockford remains in error by using this term in the manner presented.

surfer
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My use of the term, "bucketshop", is in accordance with common usage by knowledgeable traders.

My use of the term is also in accordance with the definition given by Merriam-Webster's dictionary at [http://www.m-w.com/dictionary/bucketshop:
Main Entry: bucket shop
Function: noun
1 : a saloon in which liquor was formerly sold from or dispensed in open containers (as buckets or pitchers)
2 a : a gambling establishment that formerly used market fluctuations (as in securities or commodities) as a basis for gaming b : a dishonest brokerage firm; especially : one that formerly failed to execute customers' margin orders in expectation of making a profit from market fluctuations adverse to the customers' interests.
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My use of the term is also in accordance with the definition given by the authoritative Black's Law Dictionary, which has been used as authority in U.S. Supreme Court cases:
Bucket shop. An office or place (other than a regularly incorporated or licensed exchange) where persons engage in pretended buying and selling of securities and commodities; e.g. broker accepts orders to buy or sell but never actually executes such.
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Wikipedia is not an authoritative source, but its definition still supports my argument. Marketsurfer's conclusion, based on the Wikipedia definition, is that bucketshops no longer exist; and I think this is just unreasonable, it is a misinterpretation of Wikipedia, and his conclusion reflects ignorance as to how the term is commonly used in the trading industry.
 
Quote from jimrockford:

My use of the term, "bucketshop", is in accordance with common usage by knowledgeable traders.

My use of the term is also in accordance with the definition given by Merriam-Webster's dictionary at [http://www.m-w.com/dictionary/bucketshop:


My use of the term is also in accordance with the definition given by the authoritative Black's Law Dictionary, which has been used as authority in U.S. Supreme Court cases:
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That's all well and good but it doesn't have much if anything to do with the title of the thread. Seems to me a new thread on the subject in the FX Brokers forum would be appropriate.
 
Quote from marketsurfer:

unfortunately, the PDT rule eliminated this avenue for the small trader.

surfer
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Marketsurfer was referring to odd-lot equity trading. It is not true that the PDT rule eliminated odd-lot equity trading for small traders. Not true at all.
 
Quote from Chood:

From the definition at the url surfer provides, "Today's instant price quotes and executions have eliminated the original scheme . . ." I believe that refers to stocks only and the instant price reporting of exchange-traded equities. If so, the difference between those characteristics of equities trading and the currency quotes offered by fx retailers to their customers could NOT be greater. If anything, the definition -- by all means read it in full -- clinches the points made by JimRockford.
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I think that what Chood is trying to say is that equity quotes are true bids, asks, and trade prices generated by a competitive marketplace, with huge numbers of buyers and sellers; but FX bucketshop quotes are fabricated, constructed, and manipulated, not by a competitive marketplace of countless participants, but by one single "broker" who profits when you lose. Equity quotes are generally executable, as mandated by law; but FX bucketshops are unregulated, and so they get away with doing things not tolerated elsewhere; they erect many obstacles and dirty tricks to prevent you from getting executions of their quotes, for example, requoting, manual quoting, freezing, rules against picking, rules against high-frequency trading, etc., etc., etc.

FX bucketshops can move or vibrate their quotes, causing your stops to trigger when they should not; but if you try to execute against the same quotes which are used to run stops, you will face many obstacles, because those quotes are not truly fully executable. It is extremely unfair to run stops by manipulating quotes which are not fully executable. This allows the FX bucketshops to vibrate their quotes, up and down, so as to increase the chance of running your stops, while at the same time, they can avoid being held responsible for honoring those vibrating quotes when customers try to execute against them. Customers will experience freezing, requoting, manual quoting, or be told that they cannot trade so hi-frequency, or cannot engage in "picking", or cannot arbitrage quotes between different bucketshops, etc., etc., etc.
 
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