I just spent an hour replying to this and then lost it all when it told me the text was too long grrr...had to remove your quotes so my answers are to each of those.
Most prop firms will not offer much training. If any firm promises you that you will be making $$$ in x amount of time, run the other way. If you do happen to find a firm that has successful traders willing to mentor/train you, you are very fortunate. Many prop strategies are execution based, and the more people doing them the less profitable they become. SMB is a bit different in that they mainly trade off charts using TA. Also, you won't find too many successful traders who are willing to give you all their hard-earned secrets. Why should they? It sounds to me like you want someone to hold your hand, and you aren't going to find that anywhere. Even through SMB, you are going to pay for all their extra services and I bet many still don't make it. My problem with your posts is that you are lumping most every Canadian prop firm into one pot and saying they are a scam which is not true. Of course every company will have branches/managers that are better than others. It's up to the trader to do his research and find one that is a good fit.
- Hope is not a strategy. Either the firm has good traders to learn from or it doesn't. If it does, then it is worth working there. If not, it isn't. The problem is that they ALL say that they do and then once you give them your money and show up, you find out that they lied. Some firms lock up your money for a year. Why would anyone be foolish enough to part with 10K based on hope? You're a trader, you should know better than that.
Lol...you don't need to lecture me and be condescending, esp as someone who has tried to help send you in the right direction before. I pmed you a list of people you could contact awhile back, and it sounds to me like you never did. I've been trading for 6 years...I'm pretty sure I know more about prop trading than you do at this point. I don't know too many Canadian firms that lock up your money. Most will want a risk deposit of 3-5k, some 10k. Bright asks for more because their model is completely different. I am willing to bet that most every firm has more struggling traders than successful ones at any given time, and those people won't always be the same ones. Again, just because a firm has good traders doens't mean you will be successful. They aren't going to tell you how to trade, especially with your attitude. Yes, it's something to look for if they allow you to spend time in the office before you join (they should). You want to know that their traders are happy with the management. But it isn't a guarantee of success. If I had no other choices, and the only office I could join was struggling but willing to offer me a good honest deal, I'd be willing to take it and try to do better than 90% of the others. Also, I do not think sim trading is a good learning tool at all. It may teach you the basics, but the psychological elements are removed.
"Of course most people don't make it...that's the nature of this business. The firm gives you the OPPORTUNITY and it's up to you what you do with it. Most people just aren't cut out for it."
- I can't argue with that.
Glad we agree on something
You like SMB and they are one of the only firms I can think of that really claims to be top knotch and offers a lot of training and tools. Name me a few Canadian firms that advertise the same way...I don't know of any personally. I like SMB myself, and I have learned a ton from Steven Spencer, but again, I bet lots of people that go through that training (esp if they do so remotely) don't make it. If you have the opportunity to work from their office, that's great. Most Canadians will not be able to relocate and do so...doesn't mean they can't find a great deal through one of the many firms back here.
What portion of SMB's income comes from training/selling tools then? I don't know myself, but I bet it's quite substantial. I have tried a few of their tools in the past and they are helpful. The radar is cool but nothing you shouldn't have on your own radar if you do your research every morning and network with other traders (more eyes on the market). Again, I have no issue with SMB and I follow Steven myself on twitter etc, but it's like comparing apples to oranges when you compare them to Title etc. Also, if an office has many great traders they may set the bar higher to join. Doesn't mean you can't get in or that it's a guarantee of success if you do.
Can't comment on T3...yes, I like SMB too but I wouldn't necessarily send a newbie there if they had to trade remotely.
We both know of one bad Title branch from our other posts. However, there are very successful Title traders right here on ET who have probably made more money than either of us ever will. I do not agree with you that Title overall is a pos. I know of one very good manager here in BC who is with Title (I gave you his contact)...he won't offer training (he only offers remote trading), but he will give you a very fair deal and he is 100% honest. Also, David at head office is a good person to talk to if you want to consider other branches. I have other contacts at Golden, Bright and Hold Brothers (my firm) that I would not hesitate to send anyone to talk to (pm me if you want to). It's up to the trader to do their research, know what they are looking for in a firm, and find one that's the right fit. Obv I am not shilling any one firm.
Most every prop firm in Canada focuses on day trading. Some will allow swing trading (Hold, Bright, some Title and Golden branches). I am glad that you are so well-rounded and successful at all of those. Nothing is stopping any trader from opening another account to learn another instrument. Prop firms are not there to teach you how to master every market...they give you an opportunity to make a great living at an exciting career. When I first started at Swift Trade in 2005, I knew nothing about trading or prop firms. I did my research and was pretty scared by all the negative misinformed posts like yours that I read here on ET. There were struggling traders in my branch as well as successful ones, but the managers were honest and forthright about how hard it was to succeed. I was fortunate enough to start back when Swift still covered all my losses till I made it onto the floor. I probably lost a lot. What legit firm would do that???? They did, and I made it back and much more in the years to come, as well as happily handed over more than 50% of my paycheque for quite some time. However, they also gave me all the buying power I needed, low fees so I could actually do my strategy (which they introduced me to), and I got my foot in the door. It was a risk on their part, as well as mine bc I invested a ton of time and energy into it. That's the way it works...the prop model has changed drastically since 2008 and the profit margins for managers are now a lot lower. Trader's get a much better payout when they start, but they also have to put up deposits bc the firms can't afford to risk as much on newbs. If someone is really passionate about learning to trade, many firms still offer them a great opportunity to do so.
It's fine to inform newbies and try to prevent them from being scammed, but just make sure you know what you are talking about! Every industry has bad aaples (ie branches/managers), but you can't lump them all into one pot like you are doing.
