Gotta love ZERO RISK in the SP500 = $$$

[Gotcha]

Yeah man, everything is relative in trading. Given two products A and B, traders should optimize their trading by selecting the product that is going to provide the most follow through in p&l and the least amount of adverse variance and by selecting the inferior of the two, it represents an opportunity cost to the trader that really can't be recovered. You can pretend that your goal is to trade a product that doesn't move, but that is not that the correct way to think about it. For even if your goal is trade something that does not move, you have still have to account for adverse variance in which this product fails miserably. It's a free country and you are entitled to do what you want of course, it's just purely illogical. Which is not a crime, just bad trading. In my defense, the title of this thread is not "watching paint dry".

Come on now though... the PnL can be derived a whole lot of different ways. 1 point on 20 contracts is exactly the same at 20 points on 1 contract. If you ask me, days where the ES barely moves are exactly the types of days to fade highs and lows and capture a few points very successfully. Perhaps a few points doesn't jive with your system, but many trades live off of making a few points per trade.

Looking at the chart of SPX that goes back 18 months and seeing no real gains would be a laugh for them because it simply wouldn't matter.

It makes no sense for you to say its bad trading. You make it sound like the only two trades that you saw in SPY over the past 18 months was to go long above 2100 or short below 1825, and ya, both of those trades would suck, but there is plenty to work with in the middle.

 

[Maverick74]

Come on now though... the PnL can be derived a whole lot of different ways. 1 point on 20 contracts is exactly the same at 20 points on 1 contract. If you ask me, days where the ES barely moves are exactly the types of days to fade highs and lows and capture a few points very successfully. Perhaps a few points doesn't jive with your system, but many trades live off of making a few points per trade.

Looking at the chart of SPX that goes back 18 months and seeing no real gains would be a laugh for them because it simply wouldn't matter.

It makes no sense for you to say its bad trading. You make it sound like the only two trades that you saw in SPY over the past 18 months was to go long above 2100 or short below 1825, and ya, both of those trades would suck, but there is plenty to work with in the middle.

Be honest now, do you really think that is the main subject of this thread? Honestly? If somebody read this thread just picking random posts do you really think they would come to the same conclusion as you that guys are posting on here trying to scalp one handle with 20 contracts. I have no issue with your trading style except that it doesn't belong on this thread. It would be like me posting FX scalp trades in the Euro on an option thread that dealt with iron condors. I'm simply saying, if what you are saying is correct, then your posts are off topic. I'm speaking to the nature of this thread given the title and the content. I don't care if you make a living scalping girl scout cookies, I'm speaking to the subject matter at hand, that is all.

 

[Gotcha]

Be honest now, do you really think that is the main subject of this thread? Honestly? If somebody read this thread just picking random posts do you really think they would come to the same conclusion as you that guys are posting on here trying to scalp one handle with 20 contracts. I have no issue with your trading style except that it doesn't belong on this thread. It would be like me posting FX scalp trades in the Euro on an option thread that dealt with iron condors. I'm simply saying, if what you are saying is correct, then your posts are off topic. I'm speaking to the nature of this thread given the title and the content. I don't care if you make a living scalping girl scout cookies, I'm speaking to the subject matter at hand, that is all.

First of all, nowhere do I see that this thread is about long term buy and hold. This would be the only way for your thesis to be correct. 18 months is shit loads of time, even for a buy and hold crowd.

Here is a lovely chart of the SPX. Now tell me, does it look like there isn't as much opportunity in the past 18 months? Look at the size of these moves. Perhaps you don't like the fact that its going sideways, but from a volatility standpoint, there is plenty for the scalpers and the swing traders.

In fact, I would even suggest that this is a better time to be any type of trader other than the buy and hold type. The weekly bars in the past 18 months provide so much more income potential if you are on the correct side of the trade than any of those other tiny weekly bars before October 2014.

As for girl scout cookies... Hmmm.... if an HFT firm is making only a tick over and over again... are they just making a living with crumbs? You're a smart guy so you should know that trading 1 contract or 20 doesn't matter, its the size of the move multiplied by the number of contracts.

 

[Maverick74]

First of all, nowhere do I see that this thread is about long term buy and hold. This would be the only way for your thesis to be correct. 18 months is shit loads of time, even for a buy and hold crowd.

Here is a lovely chart of the SPX. Now tell me, does it look like there isn't as much opportunity in the past 18 months? Look at the size of these moves. Perhaps you don't like the fact that its going sideways, but from a volatility standpoint, there is plenty for the scalpers and the swing traders.

View attachment 164861

In fact, I would even suggest that this is a better time to be any type of trader other than the buy and hold type. The weekly bars in the past 18 months provide so much more income potential if you are on the correct side of the trade than any of those other tiny weekly bars before October 2014.

As for girl scout cookies... Hmmm.... if an HFT firm is making only a tick over and over again... are they just making a living with crumbs? You're a smart guy so you should know that trading 1 contract or 20 doesn't matter, its the size of the move multiplied by the number of contracts.

Dude, improve your reading skills. I'm not knocking your style. And no where have I even mentioned buy and hold. Get off it already. This market has been dead for two years as evidenced by the 12 VIX, not that chart you posted. On a % basis those moves are tiny. My criticism is the nature of this thread, this is not a scalping thread and no where in the 50k posts do I see any reference to scalping. Are you even reading this thread? Showing me where all these insightful posts are on scalping. All I see is a effing sim trader rickshawman posting commentary 50 handles after the fact and screaming about the Fed. Are these scalping posts magically hidden from view or do they exist only in your imagination. Please highlight them. I don't care how you trade, start a new thread titled "scalping your way to millions" otherwise stay on topic.

 

[der_kommissar]

I'm with Gotcha...The notion that the S&P has "gone nowhere" the past 18 months is unfounded...We've done two round trips from 1800 back to 2100...Now if you said the market "goes nowhere" for extended periods back from say 2005-06 or even alot of the low volatility drift during the QE iterations, I'd buy that argument.

 

[Maverick74]

I'm with Gotcha...The notion that the S&P has "gone nowhere" the past 18 months is unfounded...We've done two round trips from 1800 back to 2100...Now if you said the market "goes nowhere" for extended periods back from say 2005-06 or even alot of the low volatility drift during the QE iterations, I'd buy that argument.

Dude, we've been at a 12 VIX with 6 handle daily ranges for months on end sans Brexit. The defense rests.

 

[der_kommissar]

Dude, we've been at a 12 VIX with 6 handle daily ranges for months on end sans Brexit. The defense rests.

No we haven't...That's bullshit and you know it...Maybe you need to revisit a chart and get a dose of reality.

We "touched" 12 on the VIX and it propped right back up...I suppose you forgot the move from 2100-1800 last August, the move back to 2100 last October and the plunge down to 1800 in February...Oh, and not to be forgotten the rally back to 2100 this spring...

But other than that, yeah you're right 6 handle ranges...Oh and LOL.

 

[Gotcha]

I'm not knocking your style.

Actually you are. You make it seem like going for a few ES points is like selling girl scout cookies. That is the expression you used.

This market has been dead for two years as evidenced by the 12 VIX

So your example of dead is the VIX? My example of the market going nowhere would be a daily range of 2 ES points, which it clearly isn't doing.

All I see is a effing sim trader rickshawman posting commentary 50 handles after the fact and screaming about the Fed.

I have him on ignore, so can't even see his posts.

I don't care how you trade, start a new thread titled "scalping your way to millions" otherwise stay on topic.

I don't care how you trade either. But once again, the only way to say the market has gone nowhere is if you bought at the high 18 months ago and held.

 

[Maverick74]

No we haven't...That's bullshit and you know it...Maybe you need to revisit a chart and get a dose of reality.

We "touched" 12 on the VIX and it propped right back up...I suppose you forgot the move from 2100-1800 last August, the move back to 2100 last October and the plunge down to 1800 in February...Oh, and not to be forgotten the rally back to 2100 this spring...

But other than that, yeah you're right 6 handle ranges...Oh and LOL.

OK dude, let me know your positions super trader, please post them in real time so I can watch you catch these 100 handle moves. This will be entertaining. So whatta got on now?

 

[der_kommissar]

OK dude, let me know your positions super trader, please post them in real time so I can watch you catch these 100 handle moves. This will be entertaining. So whatta got on now?

You seem unhinged...Now you admit we have 100 handle moves...So the defense rests...