GOP estate tax repeal

[newwurldmn]

Who are you to say what someone will do with the money they inherit? They can invest it into the economy. Start a company. Give it to charity. Or they can be unproductive idiots. You or the government has no right to say otherwise.

Right and wrong don't work here, and I never said it was inherently wrong. This is a difference of opinion. You want the government to control more of our lives and tax us more - presumably to redistribute the wealth to people who will certainly run the risk of being unproductive idiots. I want less of both.

No one is saying what you can and can't do with your money in this regard. You have several choices with your earned income. You can buy guns (and pay sales tax), you can give it to your kids (and pay inheritance taxes after a certain amount), you can give it to charity and pay no taxes. Or you can gamble it all away in Las Vegas.

Fair enough that you want to have lower taxes. But the fact that estate taxes are a form of double taxiation is not an argument for lower taxes. The idea of double taxiation implies an issue of "right and wrong" and that it's wrong to have double taxiation, though it exists everywhere.

Personally I would prefer higher estate taxes and lower other taxes... and this is coming from someone whose kids will likely never have to work a day in their lives. Tax cuts for the middle class go a lot further for our economy and for preventing unproductive idiots than tax cuts to the wealthy.

 

[piezoe]

The problem with the estate tax is it becomes a double taxation. That makes it a hard sell to keep in place although GOP is wrong for targeting the highest level - as usual only focused on ultra rich.

However there are estate taxes on estates much less than $22 million. When Bush put the exemption in place and was set to expire under Obama, we did some family planning to avoid any estate taxes when Dad passed. I am certainly not a 1%-er but did not want the government coming in and taking another swipe at money they already taxed. (estate taxes are on EVERYTHING and this kills LLC and partnership owners).

That being the sentiment it makes it very hard to find support for it even on the Dem side where there are a lot of wealthy donors who, although don't have estates of $22 million, are still paying something even on $5 million estates. Remember an estate tax is not on cash sitting in the bank, it is on all assets- real estate, company ownership (i.e. affects a ton of small business owners), investments.

GOP targeting the estate tax on top $22 million estates is stupid because of teh tiny impact. If they truly feel the estate tax is wrong eliminate it at lower levels as well. But no, GOP only focused on the most wealthiest of people and dont want any tax breaks for the middle class.

You raise good points. One of our numerous problems is we are not leaving enough capital with the poor and middle class. This is very, very bad for future social stability. We don't need to make the wealthy poor to help the poor and middle class, but the wealthy must do their part. And that is more than they are doing now. If the wealthy don't want to do their part, then of course they have to be forced to. Otherwise we will end up with guillotines, which is worse. That's reality. I say this as someone who, when they walk down the street, makes more, on average , then every 9 people I meet. Let's be reasonable. Let's be less selfish. It is in our own best interests. "Enuf is Enough." *

I might think differently if everyone obtained their wealth through their own initiative and hard work, but we know this is not the case.

_____________________
*https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dr._Enuf

 

[Tsing Tao]

You raise good points. One of our numerous problems is we are not leaving enough capital with the poor and middle class. This is very, very bad for future social stability. We don't need to make the wealthy poor to help the poor and middle class, but the wealthy must do their part. And that is more than they are doing now. If the wealthy don't want to do their part, then of course they have to be forced to. Otherwise we will end up with guillotines, which is worse. That's reality. I say this as someone who, when they walk down the street, makes more, on average , then every 9 people I meet. Let's be reasonable. Let's be less selfish. It is in our own best interests. "Enuf is Enough." *

I might think differently if everyone obtained their wealth through their own initiative and hard work, but we know this is not the case.

_____________________
*https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dr._Enuf

Maybe your precious Fed can raise interest rates and stop pushing inequality to extremes by propping up the stock market at the expense of savers? Maybe they can stop contributing to the rising house prices that price out people from the markets they live in? Maybe they can stop encouraging more and more debt binging? Or killing pension funds by forcing risky investments as fund managers have to chase equities because they can't get a return on safer bonds like they used to?

 

[Tsing Tao]

No one is saying what you can and can't do with your money in this regard. You have several choices with your earned income. You can buy guns (and pay sales tax), you can give it to your kids (and pay inheritance taxes after a certain amount), you can give it to charity and pay no taxes. Or you can gamble it all away in Las Vegas.

Fair enough that you want to have lower taxes. But the fact that estate taxes are a form of double taxiation is not an argument for lower taxes. The idea of double taxiation implies an issue of "right and wrong" and that it's wrong to have double taxiation, though it exists everywhere.

It is absolutely an argument for lower taxes - especially in regards to this very tax. Just because you don't like or agree with it doesn't mean it isn't a salient point.

Personally I would prefer higher estate taxes and lower other taxes... and this is coming from someone whose kids will likely never have to work a day in their lives. Tax cuts for the middle class go a lot further for our economy and for preventing unproductive idiots than tax cuts to the wealthy.

Good for you. The difference between us is that I am not telling you what you should have. You are telling me what I should have.

 

[newwurldmn]

It is absolutely an argument for lower taxes - especially in regards to this very tax. Just because you don't like or agree with it doesn't mean it isn't a salient point.



Good for you. The difference between us is that I am not telling you what you should have. You are telling me what I should have.

How am I telling you what you should have? Are you reducing this to an "all taxiation is theft" argument?

I don't understand how the concept of double taxiation is an argument for lower taxes. What makes double taxiation worse than higher tax rates in general? Are you in favor of higher income tax rates and no estate taxes or lower income tax rates and higher estate tax rates for people who choose to pass large inheritances to their children?

 

[Tsing Tao]

How am I telling you what you should have? Are you reducing this to an "all taxiation is theft" argument?

You're telling me that, after paying taxes all my life, the amount of money I have saved for myself must be taxed yet again merely because I am giving it to my children. I've followed the laws. I've paid my taxes. Suddenly I'm not allowed to give it to whomever I want (unless it is a charity you - government- have accepted) without suffering further taxes to the government.

All taxation is not theft. Many taxes are necessary to provide services needed by the public. And then there is this - which is absolutely theft.

I don't understand how the concept of double taxiation is an argument for lower taxes. What makes double taxiation worse than higher tax rates in general? Are you in favor of higher income tax rates and no estate taxes or lower income tax rates and higher estate tax rates for people who choose to pass large inheritances to their children?

First, can you please spell "taxation" correctly? I thought it was an error at first but you've gone and done it multiple times. Unless you're talking about converting the entire world's transportation to taxis. What makes double taxation worse than higher tax rates? The same dollar is taxed twice. That's what. It's like paying to get into see a movie only to find someone picks you out of your seat to ask for the same admission before the show starts, but lets the guy behind you get off without paying the second time.

As for what tax rates I prefer, it isn't a "this or that" exclusive argument. It is a complete package. Part of that package should not be an estate tax.

 

[newwurldmn]

You're telling me that, after paying taxes all my life, the amount of money I have saved for myself must be taxed yet again merely because I am giving it to my children. I've followed the laws. I've paid my taxes. Suddenly I'm not allowed to give it to whomever I want (unless it is a charity you - government- have accepted) without suffering further taxes to the government.

All taxation is not theft. Many taxes are necessary to provide services needed by the public. And then there is this - which is absolutely theft.



First, can you please spell "taxation" correctly? I thought it was an error at first but you've gone and done it multiple times. Unless you're talking about converting the entire world's transportation to taxis. What makes double taxation worse than higher tax rates? The same dollar is taxed twice. That's what. It's like paying to get into see a movie only to find someone picks you out of your seat to ask for the same admission before the show starts, but lets the guy behind you get off without paying the second time.

As for what tax rates I prefer, it isn't a "this or that" exclusive argument. It is a complete package. Part of that package should not be an estate tax.

Your example isn’t the apt as you know tax law ahead at the time of the purchased ticket. And to the extent that you don’t know tax law 40 years from now, when you will likely die, that exists with everything in life.

The government says if you give your wages to your kids, you pay a tax. The government says, if you buy a car, you pay a tax. Which of these are “theft” and which are not and why? It’s the same dollar. Are you saying the government is not allowing you to buy a car?

If not estate taxes then how should taxes be levied to fund things (like a 25bn wall).

Taxiation: will probably be our future as autonomous driving becomes a reality.

 

[UsualName]

The estate tax isn’t really that much anyway but the GOP is bent on bankrupting the country with their cockamamie economic philosophies so we should all oppose this until there is some fiscal sanity restored in Washington.

But I’m only here to say the following:

***We need to expand the social security tax to all income over $400k and means rest benefit payouts. That would allow for a reduction of the tax burden for all workers earning under $400k while shoring up the biggest liability on the government’s balance sheet.***

 

[Arnie]

Interesting thread and really shows the difference between liberals and more reasonable people.

You see terms like "derelicts" and "assholes" thrown around because they really can't make a compelling argument for the govt to say what you can do with your own property. And that's really what this is about. You earned it, you paid taxes on it, it's your property whether it's dollars or a farm or a family business. You should have the right to do with it what you want.

 

[TJustice]

So why would anyone favor taxing the middle class?
So why would anyone favor inflation and progressive taxation.
So why would anyone be in favor of bringing 1.2 million new people a year to compete for jobs and keep wages down?
Why would you allow 20 million illegal immigrants?


We should be helping the middle class get ahead by not taxing their income and assets and creating policies which cause wage destruction and inflation.

If you want to leave capital with middle class... eliminate income taxes on anyone under say the top.... (.5%) .

You raise good points. One of our numerous problems is we are not leaving enough capital with the poor and middle class. This is very, very bad for future social stability. We don't need to make the wealthy poor to help the poor and middle class, but the wealthy must do their part. And that is more than they are doing now. If the wealthy don't want to do their part, then of course they have to be forced to. Otherwise we will end up with guillotines, which is worse. That's reality. I say this as someone who, when they walk down the street, makes more, on average , then every 9 people I meet. Let's be reasonable. Let's be less selfish. It is in our own best interests. "Enuf is Enough." *

I might think differently if everyone obtained their wealth through their own initiative and hard work, but we know this is not the case.

_____________________
*https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dr._Enuf