Good news: BSE not a problem.

Quote from Doubter:

180 - I can't make sense out of what you are saying so I guess prefacing it with nonsense makes sense.
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just proved the point. thank you

Doubter wrote first
"The word out in the field for several days is that the cow was imported from Alberta Canada about 2 1/2 years ago. Which means, with the incubation period, she was also probably infected there. She may have come from not too far from where the Canadian cow was found about 11 months ago. There could also be a link to a mutual feed source."

as opposed to

total180 wrote later
"11 months ago, the word out in the field for several days was that the cow was imported to Canada from US about 2 1/2 years ago. Which means, with the incubation period, she was probably infected in the US. She may have come not too far from where the infected American cow was found. There could also be a link to a mutual feed source."

Doubter you spew unsubstantiated rumors (for now) to what end? Deflect blame towards Canada? Why? The same statement can be made to imply the BSE was originated in US and imported to Canada.

Now, do you understand your nonsense?
 
Quote from Doubter:

If the feed ban is not working and the practice or violations of the ban are so widespread and prevalent then why don't we have an epidemic.

* * *

As in all things there is risk (even in trading) but the risk of contracting BSE from the US food supply is about like winning the lottery.
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There IS an epidemic, at least one that the USDA is willing to recognize. It's called Chronic Wasting Disease or Mad Deer Disease. CWD was first identified decades ago in captive deer but has now spread to free-ranging deer. The problem is so bad in some states that they have resorted to mass slaughter.

And what were the captive deer fed? Commercial feed made from rendered animal remains, of course. It's fairly obvious that BSE, CWD, and nvCJD are related. But how widespread BSE is or is not in this country is a mystery because of the refusal to do adequate testing.

With regard to your risk assessment, you're just guessing. But that's your prerogative. It's your trade, not mine.

Cheers and happy eating.
 
Oh, steve46, I am afraid that you have not realized what is the best burger. McDonald, Burger King, and Carls Jr. are all better than In'nOut, not mentioning other juicy tasty burgers in some local restaurants.

Anyway, my question to all readers is this. As a trader, do you hedge your trades? If so, is there a way to hedge the risk in burgers while you can't refuse to eat them?

Quote from steve46:

Anyone who knows me knows that I love burgers, especially "In & Out" burgers. They are absolutely the best, but it is simply not worth the risk.
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Quote from NoMoreOptions:

Oh, steve46, I am afraid that you have not realized what is the best burger. McDonald, Burger King, and Carls Jr. are all better than In'nOut, not mentioning other juicy tasty burgers in some local restaurants.

Anyway, my question to all readers is this. As a trader, do you hedge your trades? If so, is there a way to hedge the risk in burgers while you can't refuse to eat them?
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Best burger is Goldies :))

I personally only buy organic beef, to me that means buying from someone I trust and only buy from free ranging heards. No antibiotics and no grain , strictly grass and outodoor grown. It might be a bitr more expensive, but it taste world better. Same goes for poultry, etc.
 
total180
Doubter you spew unsubstantiated rumors (for now) to what end? Deflect blame towards Canada? Why? The same statement can be made to imply the BSE was originated in US and imported to Canada.

Now, do you understand your nonsense?
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I think the link of the Wash. cow back to Alberta is rapidly becoming more than a rumor. When I first heard it from vets in southern Wash, the day after the story broke it was just rumor. The connections through the Toppenish sale yard and the Idaho Port of Entry are clearly raising the level of that rumor. The question now becomes whether this cow came in as a springer (bred heifer) or older cow who had already calved. By far the largest percent of these are springers, time will tell. Canada did try to defelect the blame for their outbreak back to Montana but that story just didn't pan out.

Last fall when the USDA started allowing meat back in from Canada it allowed only meat from animals under 30 months of age. Thirty months is significantly less than the minimum incubation period for BSE so if the Wash. cow has been here only 2 1/2 years it would have been impossible for her to be infected here.

As it stands now both animals where in Alberta and fed there. They could have still been several hundred miles apart and if that is the case then the only connection would logically be through the mineral as any raw or bulky product would not travel very far to be fed. Economics would make it highly unlikely. If they trace to one mineral source then it can be determined if there was a violation or if the animals were infected before the ban.

DNA testing is the way to find out for sure where the Wash. cow came from and also which calf of hers is the correct one in the other quarantined Wash. herd. I hear they are still planning to destroy all of the bull calves under 1 month of age at that facility and I will bet that they first identify which is her calf and do a lot of further testing and maybe experiments on him.
 
Quote from icarus618:

There IS an epidemic, at least one that the USDA is willing to recognize. It's called Chronic Wasting Disease or Mad Deer Disease. CWD was first identified decades ago in captive deer but has now spread to free-ranging deer. The problem is so bad in some states that they have resorted to mass slaughter.

And what were the captive deer fed? Commercial feed made from rendered animal remains, of course. It's fairly obvious that BSE, CWD, and nvCJD are related. But how widespread BSE is or is not in this country is a mystery because of the refusal to do adequate testing.

With regard to your risk assessment, you're just guessing. But that's your prerogative. It's your trade, not mine.

Cheers and happy eating.
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I have known about the Mad Deer for quite some time and it is a real problem. The captive deer could have eaten rendered remains but what about the wild ones? The mass slaughter of, I hear, 20,000 head in the upper midwest was of wild deer. You said that it spread from the captive deer to the wild ones but how? If the only way to transmit is through eating brain or spinal tissue then that raises a major question as deer are not carnivores. Did the state F&Gs feed the wild deer a mineral supplement? Or did several states feed mineral over wide areas?

There is also scrapie in sheep, which is similar to the others. Right now no sheep are accepted for rendering.

The risk in eating the cuts mentioned by the USDA is very small as all of those cuts you could buy are from animals less than 30 months of age so they couldn't have the disease due to the incubation time. Also hamburger from animals 30 months or less would be very safe. If you like brain from older animals then you are on your own.
 
Des Moines, Iowa - PETA members donning biohazard suits and carrying signs urging Americans, "Shop as if your life depends on it," and, "It's mad to eat meat-go vegetarian," will pass out emergency vegetarian starter kits and soy meat-like samples to shoppers at Des Moines area grocery stores in response to the news that the United States Department of Agriculture has seized more than 200 dairy sheep from a Vermont farm, some of whom may be infected with their species' equivalent of mad cow disease. PETA will also take its message to Ames, where the animals are being shipped to be killed and the carcasses will be tested for "mad sheep disease."

PETA has also filed petitions in court to stop bovine profiling, as it considers the over reaction to mad cow disease is not sufficient to justify such harsh unethical profiling and mistreatment of dairy cows and other bovine who are not subject to non violent methods of gathering dairy products from cattle without killing them.
 
Quote from Doubter:

total180
Canada did try to defelect the blame for their outbreak back to Montana but that story just didn't pan out.
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Correct.
The story died along with any proposed DNA tests, and if I recall correctly, there was no further US cooperation in tracing the source(s). Who's to blame? US or Canada? Isn't it again too early to point fingers? At that time Canada took the blame and suffered the costs. If you or anyone else has any confirming urls as to the source of that contamination, do provide them.

Quote from Doubter:



Last fall when the USDA started allowing meat back in from Canada it allowed only meat from animals under 30 months of age. Thirty months is significantly less than the minimum incubation period for BSE so if the Wash. cow has been here only 2 1/2 years it would have been impossible for her to be infected here.
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Agreed. "The BSE incubation period in cattle is anywhere from three to eight years." However; there could be a problem,

Quote
"Stauber said government reports have indicated that the infectious protein or prion is only found in the brain tissue or spine of an infected animal, but other studies point to nerves and blood vessels as another potential source of contamination in the meat supply.
The BSE incubation period in cattle is anywhere from three to eight years.
"For this 4-year-old animal (in Washington state) to develop this disease, it would have had to ingest the prion as a calf," he said. "This cow consumed feed in the United States that was probably contaminated with rendered cattle byproducts."

And an easy path of transmission, according to the Madison author, would have been through the dried raw cattle blood protein that's not only legal to include in animal feed in the United States, but is commonly used as a protein source in certain calf supplements.
"Farmers around here are stunned when they find out their calf feed contains cattle blood,"
http://www.organicconsumers.org/madcow/late122803.cfm DEC 28 2004


Meat From Infected Cow Went to 8 States
Sun Dec 28, 2:41 PM ET WASHINGTON - Meat from a Holstein sick with mad cow disease has now reached retail markets in eight states and one territory, but still poses no health risk, Agriculture Department officials said Sunday
http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=514&e=1&u=/ap/20031228/ap_on_re_us/mad_cow_106
 
total180

Correct.
The story died along with any proposed DNA tests, and if I recall correctly, there was no further US cooperation in tracing the source(s). Who's to blame? US or Canada? Isn't it again too early to point fingers? At that time Canada took the blame and suffered the costs. If you or anyone else has any confirming urls as to the source of that contamination, do provide them.
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The DNA rests in this case would have been very complicated for reasons that are too lengthy to explain.

The most likely reason the US line of investigation stopped is for another reason. Canada does not practice calfhood brucellosis vaccination and the US does. All female calves should be vaccinated under 8 months of age, especially for export, either national;y or interstate. Those calves are tattooed in their ears and given a metal ear tag. The tattoo gives the year and the quarter the shot was given and the tag number can be traced to the administering vet, farm where given, date given, and strain of vaccine used. This is all filed in Gov. archives. If the Canadian cow had this tattoo or ear tag they would have known immediately she was a US cow especially since she had to have been imported to Canada. If she had been imported into Canada she would have had to have a brucellosis test for import and that test would include all the above information about her so if she didn't have the tattoo or eartag she surely was not imported from the US.

The reverse is also true in the case of the Wash. cow. She had to have a calfhood vaccination to enter the US but Canada doesn't practice this except in cases where the calf is destined for export to the US. It literally takes an act of parliament ot get the vaccine in Canada. When given there for export the tag and tattoo must also be applied and the information stored. At the time of export this must all be provided for entry into the US. I'm sure this is the information trail plus the sale records and import papers that they are following. Tracing the history of a milking dairy cow is fairly easy with all the indentification they carry. The discrepancies between the claimed ages between the US and Canada are probably over when the brucellosis vaccination was admimistered. The administering vet can only guess at the age many times and can be quite a ways off.

If she entered the US 2 1/2 years ago at 2 to 4 years of age she certainly would not have eaten any calf supplement here and the assertions you cite are not proven and are at this point wild speculations.
 
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