Goldman Sachs Traders Are The Best !!

sle · May 20, 2012

Quote from 4thaugust1932:

I worked in both GS and JPM.
GS traders are the best leeches.

Have you really? May I ask in what role?

newwurldmn · May 20, 2012

Quote from sle:

Have you really? May I ask in what role?

Janitor.
Window washer.
Desk mover.

sle · May 20, 2012

Quote from logic_man:
The bottom line is that really profitable independent traders don't need partners

This might be true for retail pikers (also known as "profitable independent traders" on this forum), but in real life any large risk-taking enterprise is a multifaceted venue with a long of people pooling different strategies and different skills. The real objection to my points is that usually the diversification effect can be easily achieved at the general partner level (assuming a hedge fund) without any serious collaboration between the traders themselves.

This said, pretty much every successful hedge fund starts up the way I described it, as a multi-skill partnership between a few smart guys (usually later becoming a multi-billion dollar AUM-hogging monstrosity). That is true even for most funds with a single "headline" partner, there is usually a few guys that you just don't hear about as much. FoF and the seeders usually really like to hear that there is a diverse set of skills and strategies being pooled together.

Quote from syswizard:
Great stuff sle - but why doesn't someone embrace these ideas in a prop firm ? With almost all prop firms today, you're "on your own".

I think the key problem is that such a partnership would work if you have either worked together of known each other for a while because it requires more trust then any other business model. E.g. if I partner up with someone, he'll know all about my volatility trading "secrets" and I'd know about his, thus diluting the value of the intellectual property. I definitely can't imagine it working at a prop firm where everyone is coming and going all the time.

sle · May 20, 2012

Quote from newwurldmn:

Janitor.
Window washer.
Desk mover.

Dude, window washer at JPM must have been a harsh gig for him (especially if you got to wash the ex-BS building, that one is hard core).

4thaugust1932 · May 20, 2012

Quote from newwurldmn:

Janitor.
Window washer.
Desk mover.

Are you?

Banjo · May 20, 2012

On working together.

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/05/20/b...ed-in-huge-loss.html?_r=1&partner=rss&emc=rss

newwurldmn · May 20, 2012

Quote from 4thaugust1932:

Are you?

There were many days when I was at one of those firms and I wished I was the Window Washer.

4thaugust1932 · May 20, 2012

Quote from newwurldmn:

There were many days when I was at one of those firms and I wished I was the Window Washer.

I used to maintain ECC trading system at one the those firms.

sle · May 20, 2012

Quote from 4thaugust1932:
I used to maintain ECC trading system at one the those firms.

So sporadic interaction with a few traders made you expert on all traders at both firms?

logic_man · May 20, 2012

Quote from sle:

This might be true for retail pikers (also known as "profitable independent traders" on this forum), but in real life any large risk-taking enterprise is a multifaceted venue with a long of people pooling different strategies and different skills. The real objection to my points is that usually the diversification effect can be easily achieved at the general partner level (assuming a hedge fund) without any serious collaboration between the traders themselves.

This said, pretty much every successful hedge fund starts up the way I described it, as a multi-skill partnership between a few smart guys (usually later becoming a multi-billion dollar AUM-hogging monstrosity). That is true even for most funds with a single "headline" partner, there is usually a few guys that you just don't hear about as much. FoF and the seeders usually really like to hear that there is a diverse set of skills and strategies being pooled together.

I think the key problem is that such a partnership would work if you have either worked together of known each other for a while because it requires more trust then any other business model. E.g. if I partner up with someone, he'll know all about my volatility trading "secrets" and I'd know about his, thus diluting the value of the intellectual property. I definitely can't imagine it working at a prop firm where everyone is coming and going all the time.

I guess that FoF preference developed post-Madoff, eh?

Seriously, I do see your point and clearly most of the financial world is oriented around the fact that diversification is beneficial in numerous ways.

I just think that if you are a retail trader and you've got something that's making you money, you are probably better off accepting drawdowns as a fact of life and sticking to your knitting. If you have aspirations to manage OPM, it's obviously a different story. Or, if you are the type to manage an online trading room and you meet up with a promising partner, by all means go for it.