Going through a series of interviews

A

Aquarians

So I was approached by a recruiter with regards to a job in finance (I left finance some 5 years ago).

I've been so far in 4 interviews and if you read Hacker News regularly, you might have stumbled upon "The rise of never-ending job interviews" ( https://www.bbc.com/worklife/article/20210727-the-rise-of-never-ending-job-interviews ), HN thread here: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28031782

By this measure, you need to know that a job interview with "us" (company I currently work for, team I currently work on and interviews me and a peer are doing) takes 1 round of 1 hour. After which it's "yay or nay", although it may take 1-2 weeks to get a definite answer. If you didn't get it instantly you know you're no stellar / made no particular stellar impression, but may very well receive an offer in a week or so. We aim for full time employment and if we would only have that option, I guess we might be as anal as these neverending interviews. Being EU-based, firing is difficult for a FTE employee. But contracting is effectively a purgatory for a final offer of working full time, with the benefit of "fire at will" from the company side if the hire proves a misfit. No such case so far, with just one hour of technical interview. Forgot to mention, there's also HR interview where they scan for "cultural fit" or otherwise said if you can follow "when in Rome, do like the Romans". Contracting rate is same as FTE only taxes are your problem, which means contractors may get almost 2x my net salary (since taxes for a FTE are in the 50% range). Doesn't bother me, don't wanna be a contractor. Someone's gotta pay today's pensions, just like if I'm lucky and live that long, someone's gonna pay for mine. Basically contracting is ditching the state-backed pension for money in the hand today. Fine if you have discipline and can trust private funds to not go default on their promise of a future payment, with a state pension that's the difference between $1500 / month and $150 handouts for welfare.
 
Anyway, being in control on my side of the fence, I'm curious what's on the other side. So I accepted a recruiter's invite and going forward with it. As told you already, I'm on my 5th interview on Monday and looking forward to it :)

If it were a standard IT "anal probing" series of tests where I desperately wanna work for those FAANG and would submit to anything they throw at me, I'd probably be out by now. Not because I don't want them, au contraire, I'd be desperate to go through another proctological round, but because some freckled-riddled "hiring manager" found one case in his 20 learned by rote questions where I deviated slightly from what he holds as true Mary.

In this case however it's "due diligence" on both parts. I've a high-paying (admittedly high-stress too) job already and zero intent of changing unless the efficiency goes up logarithmically. Efficiency of a job = pay / stress, with a cap on pay at half of what I currently make. So without getting something better, worse case worst I can say fuck you to my current job and shoot my efficiency towards infinity: get paid half of what I make currently at zero stress. Still well within making ends meet where I work.

Most jobs however, offer a linear raise in pay accompanied by a logarithmic increase in stress. Thanks but no thanks. I'd rather manage that where I already am, particularly since with seniority comes leverage. And I don't mean absolute seniority, if you're 60 years old and switch to a freckled-riddled startup where you don't know anyone, don't expect much good to come out of it.

What matters after a while, if you realize it, is clout. Technical or managerial, that's what you look for to advance.
 
JSOP said:
Posts like these remind me more and more how wise I was to work for myself and never have to deal with working for others ever.
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%%
I remember Jim Rogers noted he interviewed for a position one time;
got offered a job there + turned it down, right there:D:D .LOL
 
Aquarians said:
So I was approached by a recruiter with regards to a job in finance (I left finance some 5 years ago).
Someone's gotta pay today's pensions, just like if I'm lucky and live that long, someone's gonna pay for mine. Basically contracting is ditching the state-backed pension for money in the hand today. Fine if you have discipline and can trust private funds to not go default on their promise of a future payment, with a state pension that's the difference between $1500 / month and $150 handouts for welfare.
More...
%%
CONGRATS on the company contacting you. '' Luck'' = small sample.
SURE would NOT depend on someone\ especially the gov pension to feed you.
I mean any gov, has such a good track record of telling the truth??????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????
 
Aquarians said:
Anyway, being in control on my side of the fence, I'm curious what's on the other side. So I accepted a recruiter's invite and going forward with it. As told you already, I'm on my 5th interview on Monday and looking forward to it :)

If it were a standard IT "anal probing" series of tests where I desperately wanna work for those FAANG and would submit to anything they throw at me, I'd probably be out by now. Not because I don't want them, au contraire, I'd be desperate to go through another proctological round, but because some freckled-riddled "hiring manager" found one case in his 20 learned by rote questions where I deviated slightly from what he holds as true Mary.

In this case however it's "due diligence" on both parts. I've a high-paying (admittedly high-stress too) job already and zero intent of changing unless the efficiency goes up logarithmically. Efficiency of a job = pay / stress, with a cap on pay at half of what I currently make. So without getting something better, worse case worst I can say fuck you to my current job and shoot my efficiency towards infinity: get paid half of what I make currently at zero stress. Still well within making ends meet where I work.

Most jobs however, offer a linear raise in pay accompanied by a logarithmic increase in stress. Thanks but no thanks. I'd rather manage that where I already am, particularly since with seniority comes leverage. And I don't mean absolute seniority, if you're 60 years old and switch to a freckled-riddled startup where you don't know anyone, don't expect much good to come out of it.

What matters after a while, if you realize it, is clout. Technical or managerial, that's what you look for to advance.
More...
Beware...

1. If you start working through a 3rd party (consulting house, recruiter, etc.) it can be very difficult to get converted into a full-time employee. The fee is often a huge cash payment: 50% of your annual salary, or more. Unless you're a rock-star, they'll be reluctant to convert you. After two years of contract work some laws kick in, so they often choose to just roll you off contract at 18 months. If you want FTE try and get it NOW.

2. You'll be their horse to ride. Let's say your take is $100/hour. Contract house will bill the client $300/hr. for your time (or more) for a nice fat profit. Last contract job I worked was hard, with long days. I'd call my rep for something, and he'd be on the beach at 11am playing with his kids, and tell me "I can't talk now" and hang up. Must be nice... having mules work for you, pay your mortgage, and you get your time. Try and find out what the margin is on your hourly time.. they're often reluctant to say, but sometimes you can get it out of them, or even the client.

3. Read your contract, and look for affect on employment on contract termination--both the time and scope. Some contracts are worded so broadly as to put you out of finance! E.g., "Upon contract termination, EMPLOYEE may not work for FIRM, competitor, peer, supplier, blah, bs, etc., for a period of two years." Definitely scope that to the same company, even the same department if possible. Try and reduce the time to six months, one year absolute most. YES it can affect your next job; they often ask, "are you under any contractual obligations..."

--Keith
 
kmiklas said:
Beware...

1. If you start working through a 3rd party (consulting house, recruiter, etc.) it can be very difficult to get converted into a full-time employee. The fee is often a huge cash payment: 50% of your annual salary, or more. Unless you're a rock-star, they'll be reluctant to convert you. After two years of contract work some laws kick in, so they often choose to just roll you off contract at 18 months. If you want FTE try and get it NOW.

2. You'll be their horse to ride. Let's say your take is $100/hour. Contract house will bill the client $300/hr. for your time (or more) for a nice fat profit. Last contract job I worked was hard, with long days. I'd call my rep for something, and he'd be on the beach at 11am playing with his kids, and tell me "I can't talk now" and hang up. Must be nice... having mules work for you, pay your mortgage, and you get your time. Try and find out what the margin is on your hourly time.. they're often reluctant to say, but sometimes you can get it out of them, or even the client.

3. Read your contract, and look for affect on employment on contract termination--both the time and scope. Some contracts are worded so broadly as to put you out of finance! E.g., "Upon contract termination, EMPLOYEE may not work for FIRM, competitor, peer, supplier, blah, bs, etc., for a period of two years." Definitely scope that to the same company, even the same department if possible. Try and reduce the time to six months, one year absolute most. YES it can affect your next job; they often ask, "are you under any contractual obligations..."

--Keith
More...

Well the good part is they made me an offer. Go from $40 / hour I'm currently making, to $30 / hour. "Bonus", I would have to relocate as there's no work from home (my current comfy setup although there's a large office if we want to go there) to "butt in the seat so that the manager can see you".

From here:
cluj.jpg

To here:
bucuresti.jpg
 
I knew early in the process they can't match my current paycheck, let alone challenge it. So why did I continue the charade? Tell them the embarrassing politeness "I'm willing to accept a lower pay, provided it's more than compensated by the opportunities that come with it" in as an honest voice as I could bring me to?

Because:

1) I was being honest. Truly, if the "the opportunities that come with the job" make it worthy, I'd have no reserves to jump ship.
2) It's if not axiomatically impossible, a less probable event than a pink unicorn spontaneously materializing before your eyes and granting you three wishes. Last time I jumped ship into a finance job, they asked me how much I want to make and after saying 50% more than my current pay in a shy voice, they laughed and offered me double.

Next I'll try to build a picture of what I have in mind when I say "opportunities". On the opposite side if finance were a smartphone, the feeling I got from my presumptive colleagues in "the other Romanian city" was this is what they do with it:
chimps.jpg
 
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