Going Prop = Resume Killer?

hydroblunts comments remind me of the following observation:

men who don't know talk. men who know don't.

Quote from Hydroblunt:

Wrong

A car SALESman has SALES skills that are transferable to the many many professions in this country. So does a stockbroker along with the experience of handling clients. As long as your firm is reputable, stock broker experience can be of value in the professions where SALES and CLIENT/CUSTOMER CARE are involved.

I know how you want to equate the patience, discipline, speed, focus, etc of daytrading into proper resume experience. I do not disagree that PROFITABLE or breakeven daytraders, even the monkey microscalpers, have certain skills that should be respected. But idealism rarely transfers to the real world. When people like that Average Joe shmuck go on CNBC and talk about their daytrading experience with statements like "I do not even know the names of the companies I trade", that does not paint a good image of the daytrader.

I mean what are you gonna write on your resume under the prop firm entry. "Scalped 5-10 cent increments in various NYSE equities"? How is that in anyway an asset to an employer? Do not forget, that the name "daytrader" projects an image of a guy in a hat and shorts that sits in front of a computer and trades as if he is playing video games. Most of the financial industry believes that even a consistent daytrader of 5 years is nothing more than a gambler that got lucky. Yeah man, it sux but it's true and I have had more than one 2-3 hour discussion with asset managers on the VP level where I had to explain why a profitable daytrader of more than 2 years is profitable and get them out of their "stocks are for investment ONLY" mindset.

What I am saying is that you need to THINK and properly describe your experience in an appealing manner. "Taperead the specialist" is not good. "Capitalized on equity movements by analyzing & detecting institutional order from market action, market conditions and company fundamentals" looks much much better. Now for some, that may be a lie, but for others it's just an exaggerated truth.
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Get creative!

"During the past 3 years worked as Local Campaign Manager for Senator XXXX, built 3 homes for the homeless, and began/finished my BA/MBA. During this time my lifestyle was maintained as an independent trader. I miss working with others, see the limitations of trading and feel I can do much more....."

Be interesting!!!!! Creative. Dynamic!

Find out about who is interviewing you. Create a unique resume slanted for each interview. No broilerplate resumes...

Make the reader want to meet you if for nothing more to see the person behind the paper!

Those with a bad impression of prop trading will not be moved. For others you MIGHT get an interview. After the interview starts you are on your own!

The resume killer is trying to be like everyone else.

See the movie 'The Producers'. Be more like Baliestock and less Leo Bloom!!!! You can do it!

Good luck!:)
 
Quote from rshuhart:

Most of those starting a career at a prop shop (like me) are young and have very little to lose. The worst thing that can happen to me is that I have to find another job. [...] I view it as it's now or never with a small chance of riches and a large chance of walking away unhurt.
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Unfortunately, the reality is not so pretty.

Prop looks bad on a resume.

1. It means the person did not receive training that is relevant to the position that they are currently applying for (if any training).
2. It means the person was not involved in anything very sophisticated (probably).
3. It means the person probably doesn't want the job that they are applying for, but are applying because they failed at their other job.
4. There is a big difference between the corporate rhetoric of employees with "entrepreneurial spirit" and actually having employees who are entrepreneurs.
 
I went from prop to big four accounting firm. Total resume builder if you market yourself right. 25% salary increase from my previous accounting job that i had 6 months earlier.

Quote from ozarka:

I read on this board that going prop is a resume killer. Why is that?
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Quote from Hydroblunt:

Because equity prop industry is a shady industry that has little legitimacy. 80-90% of the people are scumbags.
It's not even real prop anyway, a resume from FNYS (true prop equity firm) holds serious weight, while one from Assent is worth sh*t.
Futures prop firms hold weight cause it's real prop and you're an employee, equity "prop" you're just a client in an entity thats only a few notches above a bucket shop.

And come on people, get real. For traders, you seem to completely disregard the risk/reward concept of entering the trading arena. 90% fail, why shouldn't he be concerned with the much more likely outcome. What if he simply wants to try it out, and his main goal is to at least get experience and then reevaluate whether he wants to spend the next 10-15 years glued to the screen leeching off pennies or try out for a hedge fund or mutual fund or money management or maybe smth completely different like actually working in an industry where you produce something beneficial to the world.

Just call your group a hedge fund and leave on good terms. That's all you need to do and ur fine.
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You're entertaining...
Is there a 24 hour Hydroblunt satellite channel I can subscibe to?

You're probably right about the prop shop sleazoid factor...
But being a ** successful ** trader is actually very socially acceptable...
People always find what I do interesting...
And most seem to want to talk about it and fantasize about being traders themselves...
To the point where I stopped bothering going into any detail years ago...
Because people are completely clueless about the financial markets...
And every idiot who ever bought Barron's thinks their a virtual professional.

But seriously...
The capital markets ** absolutely require ** traders to provide liquidity.
Undeveloped capital markets in places like Ukraine seriously limit economic growth...
And keep the standard of living at Third World levels.

Unlike, say, being a pro poker player who makes a totally NEGATIVE contribution to society by exploiting fools...
Which is why poker is mostly illegal because it has a huge social cost...
Being a trader...
Or I use the term hedge fund manager...
Is a perfectly honorable profession.
 
It depends on how you market yourself and what kind of position you are looking for. If you are looking for another trading job then it will be tough to spin because the people you will be interviewing with might know too much about the business. However if it is another industry then I think it is fairly easy to spin and talk above the people you will be interviewing with. Most won't understand it so it will sound impressive as they glaze over while you are trying to explain it to them. You just have to explain it better then I sat at a computer trying to make 5 cents clicking a mouse. You can explain the research you do to make your decisions, how you follow the Fed and economic events, or basically trying to describe everything that might go into trading besides clicking the mouse. You can make this sound impressive and might even surprise yourself when you sit down and think about all the work and hours most traders put in.
 
Specialist Trading utilizing technical and quantative analysis.

If you were successful i doubt it was by guessing whether the next bar was up or down :P
 
Quote from HoundDogOne:


But being a ** successful ** trader is actually very socially acceptable...
People always find what I do interesting...
And most seem to want to talk about it and fantasize about being traders themselves...
To the point where I stopped bothering going into any detail years ago...
Because people are completely clueless about the financial markets...
And every idiot who ever bought Barron's thinks their a virtual professional.
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There are a number of other threads where it is discussed how socially acceptable trading is and the result is that there is a whole spectrum of responses. You must be meeting only one kind of people if they ALL think what you do is interesting or maybe you have selective hearing.

Daytraders are considered the parasites of the financial industry, by those who are in the course of things. Quite ironic, since the financial industry itself is mostly a sycophant.
NYC equity prop firms do have a reputation among the top tier trading firms. Ask a sales trader at, let's say, Lehman or Merrill. They consider daytraders to be gamblers and disregard any track record as pure luck. Can't exactly take it personally, you gotta consider the person doing the judgement.
As I have said, portray the daytrading experience in the right way and it can be a great positive. If you rebating stocks all day, you'll pretty much have to lie to write up your experience in a positive way. If you are doing correlation, arbitrage, pair trading and mean reversion, well that's stuff that top tiers & hedge funds do. Of course if the interviewer recognizes the name of your firm as an infamous daytrading firm, it won't matter what the next few sentences say.
 
Its who you know....wait tables at the best steak house near you...and make connections....or better yet....go caddie at the best golf course (private) near you....you would be surprised how incompetent people like to have people who they are comfortable with and won`t intimidate them around the office....the peter principle at work....people rise to their level of incompetence.....i have seen more salespeople doing analyst work with no prior experience to make me just shake my head.....and when was the last time an engineer was actually doing anything related to engineering....and poker pro`s don`t take fools money.....the house takes everybody`s money....at 5% its just a matter of time before all the money goes to the house....high stakes players take money from the ultra-rich who have the thrill of giving their money to the best pro`s like phil ivey..(really rich businessmen....celebrities....lie selien dian`s(sp) husband)..nobody "realistically" grinds out a living like olddays of vegas when tourists were complete "atm`s"....everybody knows enough poker now through books, tv, etc....to cause any grinder to look for a better job than playing 10/20 limit hold`em for a living. but interesting thread nonetheless guys:)
 
Quote from Surdo:

If you have 1/2 a brain you can dress it up to look like a real job. Get a few references lined up and pretend to be functional in society!
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That's funny you say that. I thought I was the only trader not functional in society...
 
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