Going Prop = Resume Killer?

Quote from trader1966:

Hydroblunt, you are a f--king idiot. I am sorry you washed out of the industry. Actually no I am not, best wishes dimwit.
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Hahahaha, that's funny. I can't believe how mad you got over hearing the truth. Why don't you make a profit first, before calling someone else a washout.

Get a clue instead of trying to rationalize away. I know the truth is sometimes tough to swallow but the fact is that quite a few equity "prop" firm names project "chop shop" to the interviewer who has a slight sense of the industry. Those that don't, will ask for more explanation and chances are, the person interviewing will slip up and give away that he was a "daytrader", which holds a negative connotation among the masses.

So knowing that, the smart ones will properly dress up the resume if it comes to that situation, instead of trying to rationalize how an equity "prop" firm name does not hurt the resume. The others will insult and attack those who point out how it works in the real world.
 
Quote from trader1966:

Get real Hydro, if that were the case no one would ever hire a person with car salesman or stockbroker on their resume either.
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Wrong

A car SALESman has SALES skills that are transferable to the many many professions in this country. So does a stockbroker along with the experience of handling clients. As long as your firm is reputable, stock broker experience can be of value in the professions where SALES and CLIENT/CUSTOMER CARE are involved.

I know how you want to equate the patience, discipline, speed, focus, etc of daytrading into proper resume experience. I do not disagree that PROFITABLE or breakeven daytraders, even the monkey microscalpers, have certain skills that should be respected. But idealism rarely transfers to the real world. When people like that Average Joe shmuck go on CNBC and talk about their daytrading experience with statements like "I do not even know the names of the companies I trade", that does not paint a good image of the daytrader.

I mean what are you gonna write on your resume under the prop firm entry. "Scalped 5-10 cent increments in various NYSE equities"? How is that in anyway an asset to an employer? Do not forget, that the name "daytrader" projects an image of a guy in a hat and shorts that sits in front of a computer and trades as if he is playing video games. Most of the financial industry believes that even a consistent daytrader of 5 years is nothing more than a gambler that got lucky. Yeah man, it sux but it's true and I have had more than one 2-3 hour discussion with asset managers on the VP level where I had to explain why a profitable daytrader of more than 2 years is profitable and get them out of their "stocks are for investment ONLY" mindset.

What I am saying is that you need to THINK and properly describe your experience in an appealing manner. "Taperead the specialist" is not good. "Capitalized on equity movements by analyzing & detecting institutional order from market action, market conditions and company fundamentals" looks much much better. Now for some, that may be a lie, but for others it's just an exaggerated truth.
 
Quote from Hydroblunt:

Wrong

I know how you want to equate the patience, discipline, speed, focus, etc of daytrading into proper resume experience. I do not disagree that PROFITABLE or breakeven daytraders, even the monkey microscalpers, have certain skills that should be respected. But idealism rarely transfers to the real world. When people like that Average Joe shmuck go on CNBC and talk about their daytrading experience with statements like "I do not even know the names of the companies I trade", that does not paint a good image of the daytrader.

I mean what are you gonna write on your resume under the prop firm entry. "Scalped 5-10 cent increments in various NYSE equities"? How is that in anyway an asset to an employer? Do not forget, that the name "daytrader" projects an image of a guy in a hat and shorts that sits in front of a computer and trades as if he is playing video games. Most of the financial industry believes that even a consistent daytrader of 5 years is nothing more than a gambler that got lucky. Yeah man, it sux but it's true and I have had more than one 2-3 hour discussion with asset managers on the VP level where I had to explain why a profitable daytrader of more than 2 years is profitable and get them out of their "stocks are for investment ONLY" mindset.
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He's exactly right. The shops out there soliciting traders (i.e. customers) on craigslist and ET will take anyone with $5k. They even take kids off the street to get bodies to churn 100 sh lots. Their top 'talent' are mostly gamblers who scalp the open book. So when the specialists are done away with, it'll be back to food service for these kids because their 'skill' will be worthless.
 
Oh just do it. What's the worst that can happen? Maybe it is a bad deal and you get another job.

I remember a terrific artist. I recall someone asking the artist, "How can I become a great artist such as yourself?" The artist replies, "If you want to be a great artist you have to make a thousand mistakes. So sit down, shut up and start making mistakes."

I agree, except there aren't any mistakes. Not being able to predict the future is not a mistake. Not managing the risk is a mistake. That's why having a backup plan in case the prop shop deal proves bad is a good idea.
 
when you go into something, you should only go into it if you think (right from the beginning) that you can totally dominate and make enough to retire. Thinking how it will look on your resume is a negative attitude right away.
 
The idea that going prop is a resume killer mainly stems from the trade off someone right of college experiences if they want a career related to the markets. For everyone else, this does not apply.

The majority of prop firms that hire someone without a good education and without previous experience makes money by shoveling talent in and out and teaching them to either scalp the specialist or trade liquidity (which should be dead now).

You learn nothing about the markets, you learn only what size on the bid and ask looks like, how to jump in front of it, and how to pay your masters out of your commissions. You are taught this because it provides consistent income for the managers, day in and day out, not because they have an interest in having you as a long term profitable trader who is capable of adapting to other markets and changes in technology. Those few who have the drive to teach themselves everything beyond jumping in front of size succeed inevitably, but find themselves tied to a limited technique that is difficult to scale up and branch out with.

I've met several group and prop firm managers like this (two of whom were sued) who appeared after the boom, but I hear about them in almost every standard prop firm in NYC. Once I moved out of the city to set up a small group of traders, I realized why managers love the regular income. But teaching people to be scalpers only on high commissions requires a certain deceitfulness that I find rather ugly.

If you start with this kind of setup, stay for a year, and attempt to move to another job within the securities industry, you are rightly recognized by serious trading desks as a limited-scope gambler with no knowledge of quantitative risk management techniques, economic savvy, option pricing, etc. For those who are not concerned about moving to a desk at a more established firm, prop is not a resume killer.
 
Okay lets look at it this way if you are a successful prop trader you have succeeded at the purest form of trading, and demonstrate an ability to turn a profit from nothing. Most equity trading positions in the corporate world are actually nothing more than glorified order entry clerks. Who wants to do that ? Prop trading is far closer to market making and regardless of what you believe is as technical as the traders ability allows.

Now I will agree, if you wash out and it is your sole market experience,it is not a resume cornerstone. To be honest anyone who would try to prop trade without significant prior trading experience is in for an uphill fight.
 
XYZ Prop Trading, LLC
Jan 1, 2000 - Present

Conducted research and executed trades on the New York Stock Exchange resulting in profitability in 64 out of 68 months.

Cumulative profitability during period:
Gross Profits $7,800,000
Net Profits $5,200,000


How is this a resume killer?


Quote from ozarka:

I read on this board that going prop is a resume killer. Why is that?
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Quote from Lights:


Conducted research and executed trades on the New York Stock Exchange resulting in profitability in 64 out of 68 months.
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wow thats a good bullet point. im going to have to add that one to my resume.

maybe you can also mention:

- Generated millions of dollars in revenue via trading commissions for XYZ Prop firm.
 
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