Going for prop money

Foible,
I am into my 5th month trading at a prop firm. I think your firm is treating you very nicely. My firm don't give me much support. I think a mentor is like something that is useless but you feel you need to have. I don't think you can learn much by just trading 100 shares, except for getting use to your keys. Try to put out some bids and offers to test out if any program going on in the stock, or whose the real man in it. I am still learning, but I think you can speed up your learning process by being more active. Wish both of us good luck in the coming year.
 
Hey fobile
i am joining a prop firm preety soon and i odnt have a mentor
nut u know what it is always good to have one who u can ask question to and who u can ask your problem in trading
Anyway keep the good work and i know trading is not easy so have patience and best of luck again :)
 
People, stop with this “I need a mentor B.S.”… “As a man thinks, so he is.” The best mentor is keeping detailed personal records and a diary and to go over this material everyday. You have to learn how to teach yourself and how to learn from your own mistakes if you are to have any chance in this business! If you keep programming yourself that the only way to learn this trade is by having someone else show you what to do and how to think, forget it…
 
A productive day, if not a profitable one. I took some time over the break to re-read "Trading in the Zone" and even though I was zonked-out tired this morning, I was able to keep a smooth, mechanical style without fear or self-doubt. That's the positive.

On the down side, I was trying some suggestions of a friend but was making a 0.01 spread on PFE, going flat twice as frequently, and taking a loss on occasion. I'd sometimes manage to get a 0.02 or 0.03 trade, but just as often, I'd have a 0.03 - 0.04 loss when things really moved! Though I was trading with only 100 shares, at mid-day I had a $12 gross but barely $2 net because of SEC and gateway fees.

In the afternoon, I tried the same tactic on S which let me catch more 0.02-0.04 moves which helped my profitability. I think that has some prospects...

I ended up down about -$15 after I got caught long on TXN when it tanked hard. The levels were disappearing so fast that, in my haste, I accidentally doubled-down instead of going flat! When I finally got out, I'd wiped out all of my profits and went nicely in the hole.

It was right after I was making some good money, and I think the euphoria was clouding my judgement. Tomorrow, I'd like to keep doing what I was doing, but step away from the keyboard when I start thinking that I can do no wrong :)


Forgot to write down the states, but it was roughly:

#trades: ~150
#shares: ~18000
adj net: ~ -$15
gross: ~ -$5

Happy New Years, all.
 
As with the last few days, I've made my money in the morning and frittered it away in the afternoon. I'm still too eager to get a 0.01 profit, and in so doing, letting the moves get away from me.

It's frustrating: if I'm long, I will have an offer at 0.01 above, so in the event of a big move up, there's no chance that I accidentally participate. In fact, it's very difficult to get it. But if it goes against me, I have to manually cover. That seems to mean that my profits are capped and my losses can move! I know that, sometimes, I need to let stocks move against me a bit so I'm not sure about how to control the downside, but I can definately control the upside.

In a move (as opposed to a consolidation), I will try to let the price move more.


Anyway, all my profits got eaten up in the afternoon. Again. Bleh.

#shares: 11800
#trades: 80
adj net: -12
gross: -6
 
Hey foible,

I've only scanned this thread, so if all this has been said before, I appologize.

I feel that a prop shop (I've worked in a few) serves a useful purpose, as long as you know what you're looking for. It's a great environment to get a head start on learning about markets, the terminology, execution, software, and some other basic stuff like TA and the different products that are available. As it seems you've discovered, it is not a good place to learn strategies. Most (again, imho) are tired, outdated or just plain unprofitable strategies that are designed to save the firms' butt. People around here were born on the NYSE floor, so they don't know what it's like to not know what a limit order is and so on. So, my soon-to-be-called-lame advice is to go in there with the mentality of just getting to know the environment. If you can, have a look around at what other people are doing to learn a few things that don't work.


Secondly, I don't think a mentor is going to be very fulfullling for you. I could definately be wrong about this, but I've looked for two in the past and both times I was very much surprised about what I found. Sure, both were fantastically successful (in my books), and both knew something that I now consider "the holy grail". What surprised me was what that was. They didn't have a system or technique that was different, what they knew was every tiny, intricate detail about the markets they traded in. Seriously. They knew the history, they knew the quirks in the software they used, they knew the hours and levels of every product they traded. They knew it all. Then they just learned to find the opportunities, which are always there. Now, as a caveat, I'm certainly not there yet, but I do believe that is the path I have to take.

Also, you mentioned you were in tech prior to this. I'd seriously consider leveraging that in any way you can to help you here. Traders with a programming background have an advantage over traders who don't (all else being equal).

Hope this helps,

- The New Guy

Quote from foible:

As with the last few days, I've made my money in the morning and frittered it away in the afternoon. I'm still too eager to get a 0.01 profit, and in so doing, letting the moves get away from me.

It's frustrating: if I'm long, I will have an offer at 0.01 above, so in the event of a big move up, there's no chance that I accidentally participate. In fact, it's very difficult to get it. But if it goes against me, I have to manually cover. That seems to mean that my profits are capped and my losses can move! I know that, sometimes, I need to let stocks move against me a bit so I'm not sure about how to control the downside, but I can definately control the upside.

In a move (as opposed to a consolidation), I will try to let the price move more.


Anyway, all my profits got eaten up in the afternoon. Again. Bleh.

#shares: 11800
#trades: 80
adj net: -12
gross: -6
More...
 
Frustrating day. Seemingly every trade I made went against me. I think I had one profitable trade, a few flats, and lots of losses. I'm thinking that a good strategy would be to just do the opposite of whatever I think is good.

The one trading system that is taught is scalping for pennies on NT and LU. While I'm sure that people do make money that way, and one trader on the P/L thread is posting mind-boggling results on LU, I can't see myself doing it. For one thing, it rubs me the wrong way, but in a bigger context, it relies on the absurdly low execution fees of this prop shop and so is totally non-portable. I'd rather learn something that I can take with me.

Maybe I'm too stubborn. Maybe I'll end up doing it, just to stop losing. Bleh.

#trades: 35
shares: 7600
gross: -24.00
adj net: -31.97
 
foible
If you are going to be working at a prop shop

the best strategy to learn is how to read the tape of NYSE listed stocks.

Thats the only method that makes money at prop shop consistent (prop shops will teach you this)

Either that or real Tech analysis Chart trading (few will teach you this)

Anything else is just useless skills.

You want to attain skills as you said, trading LU isn't really much of a skill that is portable

but it seems like you already know that :)


Good luck.
 
Heh, I was thinking exactly the same thing!

I don't think I'll be able to pull it off, but I can view my indicators as contrarian :)
 
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