god told me to post this here

Quote from Gordon Gekko:


i never eliminate pretty much anything. i'm just extremely skeptical of man made explanations of the universe from essentially cave man times. when i say i think religion is BS, i'm saying i'm 99.99999999999999999 sure it is. i will not deny that i can't prove you wrong, however, you certainly can't prove your beliefs true. this argument has been beaten to death. basically, it's not logical to believe things that have absolutely nothing to support it. and the weaker the claim, the more ridiculous it is to believe it. having faith i will drink water tomorrow is NOT equally as ridiculous as having faith a biblical "god" created the universe.

continue reading that thread i gave a link to. a few pages later i answer your question.
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Man made explanations of the universe? My dear young boy, everything you think is man made, isn't it?

Show me a theory or concept that is not man made.

I am curious what formula you used to arrive at 99.99999999999% certainty that all religions are BS.

I am not doubting that you feel this certainty strongly, but it appears no different than an act of faith on your part.

Unknown is unknown.
 
Partial Quote from axeman:


Theistic faith is blind. Its accepting something as true WITHOUT reason, unlike my trading setups.

There is a HUGE difference. I do NOT have any theistic style faith.
Trading on blind theistic faith would be suicide to my equity.


peace

axeman



[/B]
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My dear axeman -Watson;

[1]Some elementary faith may be blind:cool:

[2]However are you aware the letter to the Hebrews says-'' who by reason of use have thier senses exercised to discern...''

Epistle to the Hebrews 5:14 b. Are you aware of that ???






Aphexcoil mentioned old testament .

[3]''Open mine eyes''-Psalm 119;18- old testament

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Unbelievers will not have the last laugh-TriPack
 
vert.wounded.twoshot.ap.jpg



"I heard a loud boom sound, and after I heard the sound, I closed my eyes and I prayed," said Sgt. Christopher Nelson from Landstuhl Regional Medical Center in Germany, where he is receiving treatment for a fractured ankle and hip.

"After that, I don't know what happened ... 'cause I blanked out, and when I woke up, I was on the ground, and there was a lot of debris around me," said Nelson, who is with the 3rd Armored Cavalry Regiment. "There were people trying to rescue us out of the area."



http://www.cnn.com/2003/WORLD/meast/11/05/sprj.irq.main/index.html
 
Quote from aphexcoil:

vert.wounded.twoshot.ap.jpg



"I heard a loud boom sound, and after I heard the sound, I closed my eyes and I prayed," said Sgt. Christopher Nelson from Landstuhl Regional Medical Center in Germany, where he is receiving treatment for a fractured ankle and hip.

"After that, I don't know what happened ... 'cause I blanked out, and when I woke up, I was on the ground, and there was a lot of debris around me," said Nelson, who is with the 3rd Armored Cavalry Regiment. "There were people trying to rescue us out of the area."



http://www.cnn.com/2003/WORLD/meast/11/05/sprj.irq.main/index.html
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No doubt some of the soldiers who perished also prayed, as do both Boston College and Notre Dame pray for a win when they play each other.

The value of prayer is hard for me to quantify, and those who look only to results of prayer, that a prayer is answered in the manner as the request is given, can become confused when prayers are not answered.

I am not Catholic, nor an ex-Catholic, but I seem to remember somewhere that the Catholic Church had defined many different flavors of prayer.

Perhaps someone else could list those different types of prayer, for instance praying for something to happen materially, praying for something to happen spiritually, praying to know God better, praying or redemption and forgiveness, etc.

Seems to me that the word prayer is a very generic term.

I also know some who say they don't pray in the traditional manner, but rather they meditate on God in order to know God.
 
As Christians go I am probably one of the more skeptical ones on prayers for healing. If I were asked to design a study on the effectiveness of prayer in healing and wanted to show there is no effect, the study in question here would fill nearly all the qualifications.

That said, there are exceptions to everything.

Several years ago my wife was diagnosed with Meniers disease, an inner ear untreatable condition that slowly causes complete hearing loss. We can deal with the loss with hearing aids etc. but a common side effect (vertigo) was driving her nuts. (and me also). With no warning the vertigo would strike and she would get so dizzy she would have to lay down wherever she was and hold on. The dizzyness lasted for from 6 or 8 hours to a day with lots of throwing up due to the dizzyness. The attacks were getting more frequent and the doctors said take dramimine and hang on. She got to the point of having to take someone in the car with her wherever she went so that if she got dizzy they could bring her home.

Then about 2 years ago she was reading a Christian book, not on healing, and the author mentioned a specific prayer for his wife involving dizzyness. She asked me if I would join her in this prayer for her dizzyness and just see what happens. After that first prayer for over 2 years she has not had a vertigo attack although the Meniers disease has continued to progress. No dizzyness and she drives everywhere alone.

Is this scientifically measurable? The dizzyness and sickness are. The cause for the relief probably is not.

Is it a sort of self hypnosis of positive thinking? Possibly, although others are trying to positively think themselves out of the dizzyness with no success, that I know of.

Does it really make any difference to the sick person whether the help comes through a positive mental attitude or some other unmeasurable source? Healing is healing and relief is relief no matter where the process comes from if there are no bad side effects.

Are we going to quit praying for the blessed relief? Not on your life.

Are we worrying about being ridiculed for seeking relief in this fashion? Not so much as you could scientifically measure it.
 
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