god told me to post this here

Quote from ARogueTrader:



I am not surprised that you gather with, admire, and perhaps emulate the failures of others.
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you are so pathetic it is ridiculous!!!
Quote from ARogueTrader:

I try not to disagree with reason and common sense.
More...
 
Quote from axeman:

"It is difficult to reason with Axe on these issues, he is a failed theist, and has a sour grapes cloud over his faculties in this arena. "

FALLACY: Poisoning the well. Strike 1 for you.


"It is amusing of course, that most failed theists are 100% certain they quit their faith at the right time....."

An empty assertion: Strike 2 for you.


"Ask them to specualte that perhaps they might have given up their faith just when it was darkest before the dawn, and that a winner doesn't quit but expends their last ounce of energy trying, and the failed theist will have a very strong emotional response. They have no choice but to defend their failure with faith as a sour grapes position, for anything else triggers the old wounding."

Fallacy: More poisoning the well. Strike 3.


"A rational response of one who decided no longer to practice faith would be: "I don't know what would have happened if I had continued with my faith, it may be true that I gave up too soon. It is impossible to know." "

Oh I see. So by your reasoning, you should not have stopped
believing in the tooth fairy, because if you had tried long enough,
you MAY have discovered the tooth fairy is real. LMAOOO :D


This begs the question: WHY did anyone believe in the first
place without a rational reason? My excuse: My parents
crammed it into my head before I was old enough to reason
and think on my own.

So I ask you.... WHAT is your rational for believing in god?



peace

axeman
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Claiming something to be a logical fallacy does not make it incorrect, does it? Your personal bias is a factor.

My rational reasons for believing in God are based in my direct experiences with Him.

Here is a question:

Is it possible for you to have a discussion without taking a condescending position, or is the wounding so strong that you are compelled to act out in this manner?
 
I DID put you on ignore, since you jumped into the last debate
far too late and I did not have the time to regurgitate everything again for the 100th time.

Only one person remains on my ignore list right now.
Everyone else was removed. A fresh start of sorts.


So what is your stance on prayer?
Can prayer have any kind of effect beyond the the known
effects of positive thinking? Can it influence god to DO anything?
Do you have ANY objectively measurable evidence that
prayer works for anything, without excuses like it only works
when NOT being measured by science :D

peace

axeman




Quote from ARogueTrader:



And you said you put me on ignore and did not have time for such things.

Such is the value of one's word.

By the way I made no such admission that prayer is useless. A certain style of prayer seems redundant to me for those who have faith, but that is just my point of view, I don't speak with or from authority. Such style of prayer may have great value in the development of a relationship with God, I cannot say.

In adition, I don't know know who the "we" are that already knew something. There is a contingency of "we" who have strong opinions, but are lacking knowledge on the issue, yet not lacking in faith that their opinion is the correct one.
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"Claiming something to be a logical fallacy does not make it incorrect, does it? Your personal bias is a factor."

Huh? If your reasoning is FLAWED, then we cannot accept
what you are saying is true. This does not mean it's necessarily false,
but it certainly does not give us a rational reason to believe its
true or that you are right.


"My rational reasons for believing in God are based in my direct experiences with Him."

In other words... you have no way to provide us with proof that
he exists outside of your own mind? Yes or no???

So if someone were to tell you that he has a personal psychic
relationship with a purple unicorn, and his belief is based on his personal
experience with a telepathic unicorn, is that good enough?


"Here is a question:

Is it possible for you to have a discussion without taking a condescending position, or is the wounding so strong that you are compelled to act out in this manner? "

Fallacy: Poisoning the well.

Is is possible for you to have a discussion without relying
almost completely on logical fallacies???


You obviously think im biased because of this so called "wounding",
but you fail to realize that this has NO bearing on my argument.
Try beating my arguments on merit alone instead of
poisoning the well by claiming im wounded.

You are completely incapable of even proving im "wounded",
so your assertion is quite ridiculous.

I didn't drop my theism because of "wounding". I dropped it
because as I learned more, I realized how completely
unsupportable it really was.


peace

axeman
 
Hehehe.... love the biased wording here.


Here is what really happened:

The theists FAILED to keep me brainwashed.

The theists FAILED and I WON my intellectual freedom,
learning to think for myself.

peace

axeman



Quote from ARogueTrader:



I am not surprised that you gather with, admire, and perhaps emulate the failures of others.
More...
 
Quote from axeman:

I DID put you on ignore, since you jumped into the last debate
far too late and I did not have the time to regurgitate everything again for the 100th time.

Only one person remains on my ignore list right now.
Everyone else was removed. A fresh start of sorts.


So what is your stance on prayer?
Can prayer have any kind of effect beyond the the known
effects of positive thinking? Can it influence god to DO anything?
Do you have ANY objectively measurable evidence that
prayer works for anything, without excuses like it only works
when NOT being measure by science :D

peace

axeman
More...

Do I have objective data to support my belief? Not with any instrumentation you posses, obviously. God is beyond the material by my definition, so how would I be able to measure God with material means? If the God of your understanding could be measured by limited material and limited intellectual means, then that is not the God of my understanding.

My stance on prayer is that it is between God and man, not between man and man. I pray, I ask to know Him better, to trust in His will, and God does what is best by my definition. I can choose to trust in His will or not, I can accept or reject. He has given me the power of acceptance or rejection.

I pray to God, the One God who only does what is best for everyone all the time. Best in the long run, not the short run.

There would be no need to petition God to do something that He is or isn't going to do anyway. To think I know more than God what is right in any particular material situation, is to try to put myself on God's level, which I try not to do. I pray to accept His will, it is that simple. I try to get out of the way of His work.

I cannot sincerely comment on what others do, I have no real point of reference, just opinion based in material logic, which doesn't really apply to Divine Mind.

A child looks at his parents and can't begin to understand them, yet judges that they don't love the child because the child is punished by them.

Yet when discussing God, people think they can apply their limited and finite tools to understand Him. Odd.
 
Quote from axeman:

Hehehe.... love the biased wording here.


Here is what really happened:

The theists FAILED to keep me brainwashed.

The theists FAILED and I WON my intellectual freedom,
learning to think for myself.

peace

axeman
More...
yes, yes!! tell him, axe!!!! :D
 
Quote from ARogueTrader:



Do I have objective data to support my belief? Not with any instrumentation you posses, obviously. God is beyond the material by my definition, so how would I be able to measure God with material means? If the God of your understanding could be measured by limited material and limited intellectual means, then that is not the God of my understanding.

My stance on prayer is that it is between God and man, not between man and man. I pray, I ask to know Him better, to trust in His will, and God does what is best by my definition. I can choose to trust in His will or not, I can accept or reject. He has given me the power of acceptance or rejection.

I pray to God, the One God who only does what is best for everyone all the time. Best in the long run, not the short run.

There would be no need to petition God to do something that He is or isn't going to do anyway. To think I know more than God what is right in any particular material situation, is to try to put myself on God's level, which I try not to do. I pray to accept His will, it is that simple. I try to get out of the way of His work.

I cannot sincerely comment on what others do, I have no real point of reference, just opinion based in material logic, which doesn't really apply to Divine Mind.

A child looks at his parents and can't begin to understand them, yet judges that they don't love the child because the child is punished by them.

Yet when discussing God, people think they can apply their limited and finite tools to understand Him. Odd.
More...
Quote from ARogueTrader:

I try not to disagree with reason and common sense.
More...
 
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