god told me to post this here

Quote from axeman:

I especially like this one:

"Many theologians say that, even if you believe in the power of intercessory prayer, such a trial is doomed to failure because it "puts God to the test" - and there are clear instructions in the Bible not to do this. "

So basically, prayer is USELESS because you are "testing"
gods power when you pray for stuff.

So either the study is right, and prayer is useless, or
these theologians are right and prayer is STILL useless.
It's a lose lose situation :D
More...

Wow, I thought you were more logical than this. How did you come up with this conclusion? It says both in the old and new testament that you can not "test" God. This wasn't sincere prayer to help someone, but a scientific study to see if prayer is effective. This is "testing God."

Prayer isn't some machine that you put a nickel in and get a piece of chocolate. You can't treat it like a science experiment. Prayer goes deeper than folding one's hands at night and speaking softly.

If you can't draw a better conclusion than the one you just presented, then I can only pray that you grow more brain cells.
 
Quote from aphexcoil:



Wow, I thought you were more logical than this. How did you come up with this conclusion? It says both in the old and new testament that you can not "test" God. This wasn't sincere prayer to help someone, but a scientific study to see if prayer is effective. This is "testing God."

Prayer isn't some machine that you put a nickel in and get a piece of chocolate. You can't treat it like a science experiment. Prayer goes deeper than folding one's hands at night and speaking softly.

If you can't draw a better conclusion than the one you just presented, then I can only pray that you grow more brain cells.
More...

It is difficult to reason with Axe on these issues, he is a failed theist, and has a sour grapes cloud over his faculties in this arena.

It is amusing of course, that most failed theists are 100% certain they quit their faith at the right time.....

Ask them to specualte that perhaps they might have given up their faith just when it was darkest before the dawn, and that a winner doesn't quit but expends their last ounce of energy trying, and the failed theist will have a very strong emotional response. They have no choice but to defend their failure with faith as a sour grapes position, for anything else triggers the old wounding.

A rational response of one who decided no longer to practice faith would be: "I don't know what would have happened if I had continued with my faith, it may be true that I gave up too soon. It is impossible to know."
 
So in other words.... another theist here admits
that prayer is useless.

Thanks for clarifying what we already knew :D

peace

axeman



Quote from ARogueTrader:



"Before their operations, they were randomly split into two groups, and half were prayed for by Christians, Jews, Buddhists and Muslims."

Poor study, poor design.

Buddhists don't believe in God.

Christians pray primarily to Christ.

Jews pray primarily to the God of Abraham.

Muslims pray to Allah.

Design a study where you isolated groups to determine effectiveness would have greater validity.

Also, how could you measure the sincerity of those praying, as nearly every religion makes note that the strength of prayer is in proportion to sincerity, and faith in God. Since there is no way to measure sincerity, or degrees of faith from shaky to perfect, the study is meaningless, as you would never know if prayer were being done effectively, and to what degree of efficacy.

While I do have belief in God, it has always seemed odd to me that someone would need to pray to God for something to be taken care of in this world.

God is all knowing. He knows all the problems. He knows all the solutions. God acts in whatever manner is best for all concerned in the long run.

Praying to God that you may know Him and learn to accept His will is quite different than asking God to solve a worldly problem.

Those who need to pray to God to solve the problems are demonstrating a lack of faith that He will do so if it is for the best. Just trust that He will do what is best.

God gave us mind to solve our problems, and a heart to know His love.
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"If you can't draw a better conclusion than the one you just presented, then I can only pray that you grow more brain cells. "

A typical Ad Hominem attack from a theist with no ground to stand on.

Every time you pray and ask for anything, you are testing
prayer. If we are to believe the theologians in the article,
then prayer is useless.


peace

axeman



Quote from aphexcoil:



Wow, I thought you were more logical than this. How did you come up with this conclusion? It says both in the old and new testament that you can not "test" God. This wasn't sincere prayer to help someone, but a scientific study to see if prayer is effective. This is "testing God."

Prayer isn't some machine that you put a nickel in and get a piece of chocolate. You can't treat it like a science experiment. Prayer goes deeper than folding one's hands at night and speaking softly.

If you can't draw a better conclusion than the one you just presented, then I can only pray that you grow more brain cells.
More...
 
Quote from aphexcoil:



Wow, I thought you were more logical than this. How did you come up with this conclusion? It says both in the old and new testament that you can not "test" God. This wasn't sincere prayer to help someone, but a scientific study to see if prayer is effective. This is "testing God."
More...
how do you know the prayers were not sincere?! THEY WERE PRAYING FOR PATIENTS IN A HOSPITAL!!!
If you can't draw a better conclusion than the one you just presented, then I can only pray that you grow more brain cells.
More...
weak.
 
Quote from axeman:

So in other words.... another theist here admits
that prayer is useless.

Thanks for clarifying what we already knew :D

peace

axeman
More...

And you said you put me on ignore and did not have time for such things.

Such is the value of one's word.

By the way I made no such admission that prayer is useless. A certain style of prayer seems redundant to me for those who have faith, but that is just my point of view, I don't speak with or from authority. Such style of prayer may have great value in the development of a relationship with God, I cannot say.

In adition, I don't know know who the "we" are that already knew something. There is a contingency of "we" who have strong opinions, but are lacking knowledge on the issue, yet not lacking in faith that their opinion is the correct one.
 
"It is difficult to reason with Axe on these issues, he is a failed theist, and has a sour grapes cloud over his faculties in this arena. "

FALLACY: Poisoning the well. Strike 1 for you.


"It is amusing of course, that most failed theists are 100% certain they quit their faith at the right time....."

An empty assertion: Strike 2 for you.


"Ask them to specualte that perhaps they might have given up their faith just when it was darkest before the dawn, and that a winner doesn't quit but expends their last ounce of energy trying, and the failed theist will have a very strong emotional response. They have no choice but to defend their failure with faith as a sour grapes position, for anything else triggers the old wounding."

Fallacy: More poisoning the well. Strike 3.


"A rational response of one who decided no longer to practice faith would be: "I don't know what would have happened if I had continued with my faith, it may be true that I gave up too soon. It is impossible to know." "

Oh I see. So by your reasoning, you should not have stopped
believing in the tooth fairy, because if you had tried long enough,
you MAY have discovered the tooth fairy is real. LMAOOO :D


This begs the question: WHY did anyone believe in the first
place without a rational reason? My excuse: My parents
crammed it into my head before I was old enough to reason
and think on my own.

So I ask you.... WHAT is your rational for believing in god?



peace

axeman
 
Quote from ARogueTrader:



It is difficult to reason with Axe on these issues, he is a failed theist, and has a sour grapes cloud over his faculties in this arena.

It is amusing of course, that most failed theists are 100% certain they quit their faith at the right time.....

Ask them to specualte that perhaps they might have given up their faith just when it was darkest before the dawn, and that a winner doesn't quit but expends their last ounce of energy trying, and the failed theist will have a very strong emotional response. They have no choice but to defend their failure with faith as a sour grapes position, for anything else triggers the old wounding.

A rational response of one who decided no longer to practice faith would be: "I don't know what would have happened if I had continued with my faith, it may be true that I gave up too soon. It is impossible to know."
More...
Quote from ARogueTrader:

I try not to disagree with reason and common sense.
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congrats to axe for becoming a "failed theist." the world needs more like him.
 
Quote from Gordon Gekko:



congrats to axe for becoming a "failed theist." we need more like him.
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I am not surprised that you gather with, admire, and perhaps emulate the failures of others.
 
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