God is...

[userque]

Some "guess." Others "learn."

 

[themickey]

Jesus said "You will always have the poor amongst you".
What he was too polite to say, "You will always have the dumb, the stupid".

 

[userque]

Jesus said "You will always have the poor amongst you".
What he was too polite to say, "You will always have the dumb, the stupid".

The Bible speaks a lot about fools.

 

[themickey]

The Bible speaks a lot about fools.

 

[themickey]

There would be the same probability of getting blood from a stone as changing a cultist mindset.

 

[studentofthemarkets]

So at this point in time to me, it appears the disciples never said boo to a goose about Jesus resurrection, but then afterwards the cultist came out of the woodwork like cockroaches proclaiming bs miracles 70 - 100 years ago. Nice con job suckers!

Maybe you didn't read the FACT CHECKING POSTS very thoroughly? The resurrection was a very big part of the early Christian church.

Also, "This verse shows that they were imitating the churches in Judea. This is significant, because if their faith was in the same gospel of Jesus as the churches in Judea, then the resurrection of Jesus was widely believed in Judean churches."

And please read all these experpts from PART ONE again!!!!

PART ONE - FACT CHECKING @themickeyJust from the first chapter, we see that in only 18 short years, the Christianity had spread, not only the Thessalonians, but Macedonia and Achaia. Later in the book it mentions Philippi and Athens.

Most importantly, note that the message in verse 10 says that Jesus is God's son, that He was raised from the dead, and that it is Jesus who delivers us from the wrath to come.

PART ONE - FACT CHECKING @themickey
This verse shows that they were imitating the churches in Judea. This is significant, because if their faith was in the same gospel of Jesus as the churches in Judea, then the resurrection of Jesus was widely believed in Judean churches. If this was written in 51 AD, then we have to realize that this means that Christians in Judea (Israel) were believing that Jesus rose from the dead long before 51 AD, putting it much, much closer to the time of the resurrection.

So much for @themickey's wild speculation that "3 generations later they made him out as a cult figure, complete with miracles."

14 For you, brothers, became imitators of the churches of God in Christ Jesus that are in Judea.
1 Thessalonians 2:14​

PART ONE - FACT CHECKING @themickey

Chapter 5 has another reference to Jesus rising from the dead:​

13 But we do not want you to be uninformed, brothers, about those who are asleep, that you may not grieve as others do who have no hope.14 For since we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so, through Jesus, God will bring with him those who have fallen asleep.
​

​

 

[studentofthemarkets]

"Book of Acts and the Gospel of Luke make up a two-part work, Luke–Acts, by the same anonymous author. It is usually dated to around 80–90 AD, although some scholars suggest 90–110 AD......"

According to the account in the Book of Acts, Saul's conversion took place on the road to Damascus, where he reported having experienced a vision of the ascended Jesus. The account says that "He fell to the ground and heard a voice saying to him, 'Saul, Saul, why do you persecute me?' He asked, 'Who are you, Lord?' The reply came, 'I am Jesus, whom you are persecuting'."

Here once again we have not an original account, Paul does not make the claim, others do at a much later date, even though Saul/Paul was an educated Pharasee quite capable of writing.

@themickey wrote:"Here once again we have not an original account, Paul does not make the claim, others do at a much later date, even though Saul/Paul was an educated Pharasee quite capable of writing."
​

Now you are just making things up. Where is Paul making things up? He mentioned to Galatians, as I pointed out in PART TWO FACT CHECKING @themickey, that he received the gospel through the revelation of Jesus. That, in my mind, matches perfectly with Jesus shining like a light from heaven and calling out to Paul on the way to Damascus.

 

[studentofthemarkets]

So at this point in time to me, it appears the disciples never said boo to a goose about Jesus resurrection, but then afterwards the cultist came out of the woodwork like cockroaches proclaiming bs miracles 70 - 100 years ago. Nice con job suckers!

You are not reading things very carefully at all. The letter to Galatians shows that Paul and Peter and James met, they also had the same beliefs. I clearly pointed out that Paul used the gospel, that Jesus had died and was resurrected and that is sufficient for sinners, when he confronted Peter over a racist hypocrisy. The issue wasn't the content of what the gospel was, which shows that Peter and Paul were in agreement with the message that Jesus died for sinners, was buried and rose again.

PART TWO - FACT CHECKING @themickey6. Something else important is that although Paul received the gospel from direct revelation by Jesus, Paul also did meet with Peter and James. The gospel message is that Jesus died for our sins was buried and raised from the dead. So, it is not a different message from what the disciples of Jesus and early churches were already teaching.

18 Then after three years I went up to Jerusalem to see Peter, and remained with him fifteen days. 19 But I saw none of the other apostles except James, the Lord’s brother.​

​

PART TWO - FACT CHECKING @themickey7. Paul has a second encounter with Peter in chapter 2. Note that it is not the facts of Jesus death and resurrection that Paul has an issue with Peter about. That is important because it shows that they were on the same page as far as what the gospel message was. What Paul was upset about was a decision Peter made to not eat with Gentiles. Paul uses the truth of the gospel message, that we can assume Peter also believed, that is, that we are saved by faith in Jesus, to publicly confront Peter that his decision was hypocritical.

11 Now when Peter had come to Antioch, I withstood him to his face, because he was to be blamed; 12 for before certain men came from James, he would eat with the Gentiles; but when they came, he withdrew and separated himself, fearing those who were of the circumcision. 13 And the rest of the Jews also played the hypocrite with him, so that even Barnabas was carried away with their hypocrisy.​

14 But when I saw that they were not straightforward about the truth of the gospel, I said to Peter before them all, “If you, being a Jew, live in the manner of Gentiles and not as the Jews, why do you compel Gentiles to live as Jews? 15 We who are Jews by nature, and not sinners of the Gentiles, 16 knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law but by faith in Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Christ Jesus, that we might be justified by faith in Christ and not by the works of the law; for by the works of the law no flesh shall be justified.​

17 “But if, while we seek to be justified by Christ, we ourselves also are found sinners, is Christ therefore a minister of sin? Certainly not! 18 For if I build again those things which I destroyed, I make myself a transgressor. 19 For I through the law died to the law that I might live to God. 20 I have been crucified with Christ; it is no longer I who live, but Christ lives in me; and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by faith in the Son of God, who loved me and gave Himself for me. 21 I do not set aside the grace of God; for if righteousness comes through the law, then Christ died in vain.”​

Here is the first chapter of Galatians (NKJV):

1 Paul, an apostle (not from men nor through man, but through Jesus Christ and God the Father who raised Him from the dead), 2 and all the brethren who are with me,

To the churches of Galatia:

3 Grace to you and peace from God the Father and our Lord Jesus Christ, 4 who gave Himself for our sins, that He might deliver us from this present evil age, according to the will of our God and Father, 5 to whom be glory forever and ever. Amen.

Only One Gospel
6 I marvel that you are turning away so soon from Him who called you in the grace of Christ, to a different gospel, 7 which is not another; but there are some who trouble you and want to pervert the gospel of Christ. 8 But even if we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel to you than what we have preached to you, let him be accursed. 9 As we have said before, so now I say again, if anyone preaches any other gospel to you than what you have received, let him be accursed.

10 For do I now persuade men, or God? Or do I seek to please men? For if I still pleased men, I would not be a bondservant of Christ.

Call to Apostleship
11 But I make known to you, brethren, that the gospel which was preached by me is not according to man. 12 For I neither received it from man, nor was I taught it, but it came through the revelation of Jesus Christ.

13 For you have heard of my former conduct in Judaism, how I persecuted the church of God beyond measure and tried to destroy it. 14 And I advanced in Judaism beyond many of my contemporaries in my own nation, being more exceedingly zealous for the traditions of my fathers.

15 But when it pleased God, who separated me from my mother’s womb and called me through His grace, 16 to reveal His Son in me, that I might preach Him among the Gentiles, I did not immediately confer with flesh and blood, 17 nor did I go up to Jerusalem to those who were apostles before me; but I went to Arabia, and returned again to Damascus.

Contacts at Jerusalem
18 Then after three years I went up to Jerusalem to see Peter, and remained with him fifteen days. 19 But I saw none of the other apostles except James, the Lord’s brother. 20 (Now concerning the things which I write to you, indeed, before God, I do not lie.)

21 Afterward I went into the regions of Syria and Cilicia. 22 And I was unknown by face to the churches of Judea which were in Christ. 23 But they were hearing only, “He who formerly persecuted us now preaches the faith which he once tried to destroy.” 24 And they glorified God in me.
​

Just in case you don't click on the quote, here is point 7 from the above quote:

7. Paul has a second encounter with Peter in chapter 2.

Note that it is not the facts of Jesus death and resurrection that Paul has an issue with Peter about. That is important because it shows that they were on the same page as far as what the gospel message was. What Paul was upset about was a decision Peter made to not eat with Gentiles. Paul uses the truth of the gospel message, that we can assume Peter also believed, that is, that we are saved by faith in Jesus, to publicly confront Peter that his decision was hypocritical.

11 Now when Peter had come to Antioch, I withstood him to his face, because he was to be blamed; 12 for before certain men came from James, he would eat with the Gentiles; but when they came, he withdrew and separated himself, fearing those who were of the circumcision. 13 And the rest of the Jews also played the hypocrite with him, so that even Barnabas was carried away with their hypocrisy.​

14 But when I saw that they were not straightforward about the truth of the gospel, I said to Peter before them all, “If you, being a Jew, live in the manner of Gentiles and not as the Jews, why do you compel Gentiles to live as Jews? 15 We who are Jews by nature, and not sinners of the Gentiles, 16 knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law but by faith in Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Christ Jesus, that we might be justified by faith in Christ and not by the works of the law; for by the works of the law no flesh shall be justified.​

17 “But if, while we seek to be justified by Christ, we ourselves also are found sinners, is Christ therefore a minister of sin? Certainly not! 18 For if I build again those things which I destroyed, I make myself a transgressor. 19 For I through the law died to the law that I might live to God. 20 I have been crucified with Christ; it is no longer I who live, but Christ lives in me; and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by faith in the Son of God, who loved me and gave Himself for me. 21 I do not set aside the grace of God; for if righteousness comes through the law, then Christ died in vain.”
​

Oops! The above passage doesn't actually refer to the resurrection. Actually, it kind of does, since Paul said, "CHRIST LIVES IN ME." However, we KNOW that Peter and all the disciples believed in the resurrection.

Wait, here is something: the greeting of Galatians says that the letter is from Paul and ALL who are with him and the first line says that God the Father raised Him from the dead.

SEE, IT WAS BELIEVED BY ALL THE CHRISTIANS THAT JESUS ROSE FROM THE DEAD!!!!

1 Paul, an apostle (not from men nor through man, but through Jesus Christ and God the Father who raised Him from the dead), 2 and all the brethren who are with me,​

 

[TrailerParkTed]

@themickey wrote:"Here once again we have not an original account, Paul does not make the claim, others do at a much later date, even though Saul/Paul was an educated Pharasee quite capable of writing."
​

Now you are just making things up. Where is Paul making things up? He mentioned to Galatians, as I pointed out in PART TWO FACT CHECKING @themickey, that he received the gospel through the revelation of Jesus. That, in my mind, matches perfectly with Jesus shining like a light from heaven and calling out to Paul on the way to Damascus.

Some light trivia, in Acts 13 have you ever wondered who Manaen was?

“13 1 Now in the church at Antioch there were prophets and teachers: Barnabas,Simeon called Niger, Lucius of Cyrene,Manaen (who had been brought up with Herod the tetrarch) and Saul.2”


Josepheus and Jewish Tradition mentioned someone who might have been a prominent leader, maybe it was him?

 

[studentofthemarkets]

LOL ... "... iron sharpens iron ..."


I'm going on memory, so let me see what I can find to cite today in support of this. But here's the possible logic behind it:

• Currently, God could descend every year or so and prove his existence to everyone if he wanted to ... but where would faith/trust fit in.
• The rapture (pe-trib) would essentially prove certain scriptures, and the existence of God. And there would, again, be no need for faith/trust for those left behind if they could simply enter heaven under grace. Saturday morning, rapture. Saturday afternoon, suddenly, everyone left behind are born again Christians.
• Grace would be prophecy fulfilled after the rapture. No Biblical requirement for grace after the rapture.

If memory serves me correctly, salvation during the tribulation (7 years) comes via surviving the whole 7 years, or being beheaded in the name of God during the tribulation.

Thanks for answering!
There's not much given in the book of Revelation to go on, but this is one verse that mentions believers during the Tribulation:

And they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb and by the word of their testimony, and they did not love their lives to the death.
Revelation 12:11​