God is...

[userque]

No, I gave an example of randomness evolving into order.

The probability of randomness evolving into the number 123456, or 'order' is the same as randomness (a six digit random number, in this case) evolving into 483059 (a specific 'random' number), or disorder, is the same. What is, or isn't order is a human construct.

Admittedly, my example was more to provoke thought, than to be an exact equivalent to the theory of evolution.

But seriously, humans don't currently know exactly who or what started life or our universe.

Humans can't prove this. Correct.

The ideas are the same. It's just that some people need to put a human-like face on it.

Absolutely not. One idea is that matter appeared from nothing, and evolved into living organisms out of building blocks that were magically preprogrammed, whereas,

The other idea is that a non-human, intelligent being, of unknown origin, designed and built our world.

I didn't put a human face on randomness. I replaced randomness with a non-human, intelligent being.

This is the tippy tip of the iceberg. I haven't even scratched the surface. And likely won't, here.

 

[ph1l]

Absolutely not. One idea is that matter appeared from nothing

Not knowing an answer is not the same as appearing from nothing (at least not to sane people).
https://www.quora.com/How-can-something-come-out-of-nothing-as-per-the-Big-Bang-Theory

 

[userque]

Not knowing an answer is not the same as appearing from nothing (at least not to sane people).
https://www.quora.com/How-can-something-come-out-of-nothing-as-per-the-Big-Bang-Theory
View attachment 265948

If the universe, in the theory of evolution, didn't appear from nothing, then where/what did it come from?

Let's say it appeared from 'A.'

So, where did 'A' appear from?

You can't escape that either it appeared from nothing, or it appeared from something. So the questions become, how did it appear from nothing? Or where/how did the precursor(s) appear?

And how does the certainty and concreteness of the foundation: 'A,' jibe with the randomness of the theory?

That said, doesn't the theory speak to a big bang?

So what is the origin of the big bang? A big bang of what? And where did that 'what' come from.

As an article I posted previously illustrated, it is more logical to believe that we are of an unexplained intelligence, rather than of randomness with unexplained appearance of matter and unexplained preprogramming of the building blocks used to create/evolve life.

I believe in intelligent design. I'm OK with you believing in something else.

 

[userque]

Not knowing an answer is not the same as appearing from nothing (at least not to sane people).
https://www.quora.com/How-can-something-come-out-of-nothing-as-per-the-Big-Bang-Theory
View attachment 265948

So, if the theory of evolution leaves open the origin of the big bang, then the theory of evolution supports the notion that it could have been sparked by an intelligent being?

Don't get me wrong, I believe life can, and does, evolve. To what extent? I don't know. Can life evolve to a new species? I don't know.

But I don't believe that life originated via evolution. Evolution may explain the physical assembly, but it can't explain the actions these genes take after they've been assembled.

 

[userque]

From the video clip below, Origin: Probability of a Single Protein Forming by Chance

Timothy Standish, Biologist, Geoscience Research Institute: “If we can appreciate exactly how hard it is to produce one molecular machine using nothing except atoms and energy, we can see that there is a profound problem, because once you have one molecular machine, you don’t have a living thing. These molecular machines need other molecular machines and even if nature was capable of producing all the molecular machines necessary that still wouldn’t be enough. They have to all be together all in this tiny little membrane bound space that we call a cell."


Ann Gauger, Developmental Biologist, Biologic Institute: "From my understanding of what it takes to make a cell, it has to happen all at once. You can’t do it one bit at a time because everything works together in a causal loop. The higher level of organization transcends the pieces. The spatial organization in the cell requires that molecules end up in the right place at the right time. The DNA is copied into RNA. The polymerase that does the copying has to find the right spot in the DNA to start copying. The RNA has to somehow hook up with ribosomes which have to be in a particular place and the proteins then that are made have to be going to a particular place. That’s an awful lot to account for by random chance."


Timothy Standish: "The probability that you would get them in the same space at the same time becomes beyond unimaginable and the probability that you would get them within a membrane inclusion, like a cell, is the next best thing to impossible."

This is a very good video. I'd like to hear @ph1l 's opinion of it.

 

[studentofthemarkets]

This is a very good video. I'd like to hear @ph1l 's opinion of it.

I'll second that!

 

[ph1l]

If the universe, in the theory of evolution, didn't appear from nothing, then where/what did it come from?

Let's say it appeared from 'A.'

So, where did 'A' appear from?

You can't escape that either it appeared from nothing, or it appeared from something. So the questions become, how did it appear from nothing? Or where/how did the precursor(s) appear?

If you mean how life on Earth started, it could have been something like
https://www.nationalgeographic.com/adventure/article/100513-science-evolution-darwin-single-ancestor

What caused that and what happened before the first 10^-43 seconds of our universe is still unknown.

Also,

So, if the theory of evolution leaves open the origin of the big bang, then the theory of evolution supports the notion that it could have been sparked by an intelligent being?

I would think the big bang and life might have been caused by different things, but yes, it could have been this guy:

 

[ph1l]

This is a very good video. I'd like to hear @ph1l 's opinion of it.

I'll second that!

The argument in the slick-looking video is essentially is the search space for combining the necessary parts is so large, life could never have happened by chance. This is based on a claimed "1 in 10^164" chance of getting a functional protein. So if life didn't happen by chance, something intelligent must have caused it to happen.

That would be true for a sequential search. But search speeds can be dramatically improved when they are not sequential, such as those used in genetic algorithms in software and possibly genetic combinations in the real world. So the video doesn't present enough evidence to disprove research like in https://www.nsf.gov/discoveries/disc_summ.jsp?cntn_id=117380&org=NSF

Recently, Hud and his team made a discovery that further advances their theory that certain molecules helped the first RNA and DNA molecules to form.

"We've found that the molecule ethidium can assist short polymers of nucleic acids, known as oligonucleotides, in forming longer polymers. Ethidium can also select the structure of the base pairs that hold together two strands of DNA."

We still don't know exactly how life began, or that intelligent life even exists.

 

[userque]

but yes, it could have been this guy

We still don't know exactly how life began, or that intelligent life even exists

Thanks for watching the video posted by @studentofthemarkets , and for your thoughts. For the record, the intent was not to conclude "exactly how life began."
What are your thoughts on the apparent preprogramming associated with genes--that I spoke of earlier? None of your links seem to address that.

 

[ph1l]

What are your thoughts on the apparent preprogramming associated with genes--that I spoke of earlier? None of your links seem to address that.

I'm not a biologist, but I would think once life began about 3.7 billion years ago, the first single-celled organisms had what you refer to as "preprogramming." This guided the cells' behavior including reproduction by division. When the cells divided or were exposed to environmental factors like ultraviolet light, their genetic material could mutate. Then, the cells behavior might change.

As I posted before in this link, one type of cell evolved into the common ancestor of all known life on Earth about 3.5 billion years ago. Any other types of cells in the history have presumably gone extinct.