That's why I think people should invest in Tesla automated driving, and all guns should have GPS chips that are similar to cell phones that enable the presence of a firearm within the guidance of the law...When men think of God they'll find a way to create a solution to the problems they face...
God is...
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Taking one item to extremes as a form of defence against another, is disingenuous.
Religious/christian motivated killings have their share of being perpetrated upon innocent people too. Apart from all the horrifc historical events, planned parenthood murders along and deadly anti-minority violence are just two modern day examples.
Not to mention the countless rapes and horrendous child abuse it has fuelled by so many clergy around the world while heavily under the influence of religious belief.
Not a good thing, indeed not a joke, but the point is here, addiction to beer and religion, extreme or not, are both avoidable.
One way to tell a false teacher from one who is truly born again and living faithfully in obedience to God's Word is to apply this test, given to us straight from the Bible:
Christians have gotten a bad rap because there are many "Christians" who are immoral or who do crimes while in positions of church leadership. These false Christians are religious but they do not know the Lord and do not follow His commands.
It's not that a true Christian can't occasionally stumble into sin, we can, but the Holy Spirit within us works diligently to bring born again believers to repentance.
3 But among you there must not be even a hint of sexual immorality, or of any kind of impurity, or of greed, because these are improper for God’s holy people.
4 Nor should there be obscenity, foolish talk or coarse joking, which are out of place, but rather thanksgiving.
5 For of this you can be sure: No immoral, impure or greedy person—such a person is an idolater—has any inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and of God.
Ephesians 5:3-5
4 Nor should there be obscenity, foolish talk or coarse joking, which are out of place, but rather thanksgiving.
5 For of this you can be sure: No immoral, impure or greedy person—such a person is an idolater—has any inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and of God.
Ephesians 5:3-5
It's not that a true Christian can't occasionally stumble into sin, we can, but the Holy Spirit within us works diligently to bring born again believers to repentance.
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Just wanted to add to the above post. Although God does provide forgiveness for sins and restoration to fellowship with Himself, believers will experience discipline from the Lord as well as consequences for their behavior. There are some sinful behaviors that disqualify a person from being able to lead in a (biblical-based) church. This article at this link https://www.gotquestions.org/qualifications-of-a-pastor.html has a list of some of the biblical requirements:
The biblical qualifications of pastor are outlined in two primary New Testament passages, 1 Timothy 3:1–7 and Titus1:5–9. There are three terms used interchangeably in the New Testament to refer the highest office in a church: elder, overseer, and pastor (which means “shepherd”) all refer to the same office.
First Timothy 3:1–7 contains the biblical qualifications for a pastor: “Here is a trustworthy saying: Whoever aspires to be an overseer desires a noble task. Now the overseer is to be above reproach, faithful to his wife, temperate, self-controlled, respectable, hospitable, able to teach, not given to drunkenness, not violent but gentle, not quarrelsome, not a lover of money. He must manage his own family well and see that his children obey him, and he must do so in a manner worthy of full respect. (If anyone does not know how to manage his own family, how can he take care of God’s church?) He must not be a recent convert, or he may become conceited and fall under the same judgment as the devil. He must also have a good reputation with outsiders, so that he will not fall into disgrace and into the devil’s trap.”
We also find the biblical qualifications for a pastor in Titus 1:5–9: “The reason I left you in Crete was that you might put in order what was left unfinished and appoint elders in every town, as I directed you. An elder must be blameless, faithful to his wife, a man whose children believe and are not open to the charge of being wild and disobedient. Since an overseer manages God’s household, he must be blameless—not overbearing, not quick-tempered, not given to drunkenness, not violent, not pursuing dishonest gain. Rather, he must be hospitable, one who loves what is good, who is self-controlled, upright, holy and disciplined. He must hold firmly to the trustworthy message as it has been taught, so that he can encourage others by sound doctrine and refute those who oppose it.”
Putting the two lists together, we get the following qualifications of a pastor:
He must be a person of integrity and worthy of the respect of those both inside and outside the church (above reproach, respectable, blameless, upright, holy, loves what is good, have a good reputation with outsiders).
He must have self-control (be temperate, disciplined). This encompasses many of the things that come later in the list.
He must not misuse alcohol by getting drunk (not given to drunkenness).
He must be hospitable. He must be able to welcome people into his home and his life. He is not “stand- offish.”
He must be able to deal with people in a respectful way (not violent, but gentle, not quarrelsome, not overbearing, not quick-tempered).
He must be good husband (faithful to his wife) and a good father (a man whose children believe and are not open to the charge of being wild and disobedient. He must manage his own family well and see that his children obey him, and he must do so in a manner worthy of full respect.
First Timothy 3:1–7 contains the biblical qualifications for a pastor: “Here is a trustworthy saying: Whoever aspires to be an overseer desires a noble task. Now the overseer is to be above reproach, faithful to his wife, temperate, self-controlled, respectable, hospitable, able to teach, not given to drunkenness, not violent but gentle, not quarrelsome, not a lover of money. He must manage his own family well and see that his children obey him, and he must do so in a manner worthy of full respect. (If anyone does not know how to manage his own family, how can he take care of God’s church?) He must not be a recent convert, or he may become conceited and fall under the same judgment as the devil. He must also have a good reputation with outsiders, so that he will not fall into disgrace and into the devil’s trap.”
We also find the biblical qualifications for a pastor in Titus 1:5–9: “The reason I left you in Crete was that you might put in order what was left unfinished and appoint elders in every town, as I directed you. An elder must be blameless, faithful to his wife, a man whose children believe and are not open to the charge of being wild and disobedient. Since an overseer manages God’s household, he must be blameless—not overbearing, not quick-tempered, not given to drunkenness, not violent, not pursuing dishonest gain. Rather, he must be hospitable, one who loves what is good, who is self-controlled, upright, holy and disciplined. He must hold firmly to the trustworthy message as it has been taught, so that he can encourage others by sound doctrine and refute those who oppose it.”
Putting the two lists together, we get the following qualifications of a pastor:
He must be a person of integrity and worthy of the respect of those both inside and outside the church (above reproach, respectable, blameless, upright, holy, loves what is good, have a good reputation with outsiders).
He must have self-control (be temperate, disciplined). This encompasses many of the things that come later in the list.
He must not misuse alcohol by getting drunk (not given to drunkenness).
He must be hospitable. He must be able to welcome people into his home and his life. He is not “stand- offish.”
He must be able to deal with people in a respectful way (not violent, but gentle, not quarrelsome, not overbearing, not quick-tempered).
He must be good husband (faithful to his wife) and a good father (a man whose children believe and are not open to the charge of being wild and disobedient. He must manage his own family well and see that his children obey him, and he must do so in a manner worthy of full respect.
How many deaths in this day of age can be attributed to religion? Especially the Christian religion compared to the deaths caused by alcohol? (We will keep Islamic suicide bombers out of this question).
I would rather face drivers on the opposite side of the road that just came from Church vs those who have just stumbled out of the local tavern that have over imbibed.
Addiction to beer is indeed avoidable. Most do not take that course.
Clergy who have sinned do not do it in the name of Religion. That is ridiculous. And these sins you mention are mostly done by others who are not clergy and probably not religious whatsoever.
"Many a man has a correct doctrinal conception of Christ, through a study of the Word, long before he has a true personal knowledge of Christ through the testimony of the living Spirit." R.A. Torrey
Here are some Bible verses that support this quote from R.A. Torrey:
In my personal experience this fellowship with Jesus has never been a physical manifestation. Yet it certainly has been a conviction within my thoughts and heart of His person and my relationship to Him. It is through contemplation and study of Scripture that He has thus revealed to my understanding, glimpses of His person. This has resulted in my personal worship of Him. For example, when thinking on passages, such as Psalm 110:4
and some of the other passages concerning Jesus being a High Priest on our behalf, my thoughts will start off with just thinking about these reminders of the greatness of the plan of salvation, that Jesus is not only the sacrifice, but also the High Priest, and usually at some point (I do not work up my emotions, and sometimes it does not happen at all) I will get what does seem to me to be more of a working of God upon my heart to get a faint glimmer that impresses upon my heart both the truthfulness of these passages, that Jesus was indeed foretold about in the Passage that He would be our priest forever, and also the impression that I do actually have Him as my High Priest. This becomes a strong impression from Scripture that He stands before His Father on my behalf, having finished the substitutionary work on the cross through His death and having been made alive after He died, which is a foreshadowing of the eternal life that He will give to those who die who have believed in Him. These concepts go from just ideas floating around in my head to worshipping Him through what seems to me is an experience of being led into worship by the Holy Spirit. It is a response to what Scripture has impressed on my mind. It is not something I imagine but is other than me. That worship takes the form of me responding to this understanding of Him by telling Him that I love Him and that I'm so thankful to have Himself as my High Priest. It is actually a very joyful experience...such as is described in the verse above: "you...rejoice with an inexpressible and glorious joy."
This is what I believe the above verses are all talking about when it talks about God revealing Himself and pouring out His love in our hearts and part of that fellowship is our communication to Him telling Him that we we are grateful and that we love Him back.
Here are some Bible verses that support this quote from R.A. Torrey:
Whoever has My commandments and keeps them is the one who loves Me. The one who loves Me will be loved by My Father, and I will love him and reveal Myself to him.”
John 14:21
And hope does not disappoint us, because God has poured out His love into our hearts through the Holy Spirit, whom He has given us.
Romans 5:5
For this reason I kneel before the Father....I pray...that he may strengthen you with power through his Spirit in your inner being, so that Christ may dwell in your hearts through faith. And I pray that you, being rooted and established in love, may.....grasp how wide and long and high and deep is the love of Christ...
Eph 3:15-18
Though you have not seen Him, you love Him; and though you do not see Him now, you believe in Him and rejoice with an inexpressible and glorious joy....
1 Peter 1:8
John 14:21
And hope does not disappoint us, because God has poured out His love into our hearts through the Holy Spirit, whom He has given us.
Romans 5:5
For this reason I kneel before the Father....I pray...that he may strengthen you with power through his Spirit in your inner being, so that Christ may dwell in your hearts through faith. And I pray that you, being rooted and established in love, may.....grasp how wide and long and high and deep is the love of Christ...
Eph 3:15-18
Though you have not seen Him, you love Him; and though you do not see Him now, you believe in Him and rejoice with an inexpressible and glorious joy....
1 Peter 1:8
The LORD has sworn and will not change His mind: “You are a priest forever in the order of Melchizedek.”
This is what I believe the above verses are all talking about when it talks about God revealing Himself and pouring out His love in our hearts and part of that fellowship is our communication to Him telling Him that we we are grateful and that we love Him back.
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Christmas: a celebration of Jesus Christ coming to earth
Jesus: Who is and Who was and Who is to come
Does anyone want a glimpse of revelation of Jesus Christ? There’s a book for that! It can be listened to for free on you tube!
It also comes with a promise from God, that the one who hears (and keeps) the words in this book will be blessed!
THE REVELATION OF JESUS CHRIST
May you all be blessed with the revelation of Jesus Christ to your own hearts this Christmas Day!
Jesus: Who is and Who was and Who is to come
Does anyone want a glimpse of revelation of Jesus Christ? There’s a book for that! It can be listened to for free on you tube!
It also comes with a promise from God, that the one who hears (and keeps) the words in this book will be blessed!
THE REVELATION OF JESUS CHRIST
May you all be blessed with the revelation of Jesus Christ to your own hearts this Christmas Day!
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Remember, you took the comparison to extremes, not me.
Depends how you count them. Apart from those christians who recently committed planned parenthood murders and deadly anti-minority violence in the name of god which I've already mentioned. Then if you include presidents, who themselves used their religion, invoking god and attributing in god's name to their decisions to go to war, including the subsequent "collateral damage" from killing innocent families that comes with it, then tens if not hundreds of thousands of deaths, in which religious belief played out its deadly role.
Dying from a car wreck due to a drunk or a religious believer would make no difference to the outcome.
No really, that is what's ridiculous. Of course clergy sin in the name of religion. Like the Catholic church's own sex abuse cases, they first attempted to deny and cover up before so many priests were found to have been abusing children all over the world.
Like the Bible itself whose words say and whose meanings mean what they clearly say and what they clearly mean and which are easily interpreted by those people of religion, to condone horrific offenses. That is religion and that is religious clergy playing "sin" out in its name.
Religion is the kind of malevolent mind virus which tries to excuse and dodge the inexcusable, as you are doing here.
Indeed, as is addiction to religion avoidable.
But unfortunately like drunks, too many religious people like to go through life believing they are being sober.
Depends how you count them. Apart from those christians who recently committed planned parenthood murders and deadly anti-minority violence in the name of god which I've already mentioned. Then if you include presidents, who themselves used their religion, invoking god and attributing in god's name to their decisions to go to war, including the subsequent "collateral damage" from killing innocent families that comes with it, then tens if not hundreds of thousands of deaths, in which religious belief played out its deadly role.
Dying from a car wreck due to a drunk or a religious believer would make no difference to the outcome.
No really, that is what's ridiculous. Of course clergy sin in the name of religion. Like the Catholic church's own sex abuse cases, they first attempted to deny and cover up before so many priests were found to have been abusing children all over the world.
Like the Bible itself whose words say and whose meanings mean what they clearly say and what they clearly mean and which are easily interpreted by those people of religion, to condone horrific offenses. That is religion and that is religious clergy playing "sin" out in its name.
Religion is the kind of malevolent mind virus which tries to excuse and dodge the inexcusable, as you are doing here.
Indeed, as is addiction to religion avoidable.
But unfortunately like drunks, too many religious people like to go through life believing they are being sober.
Blaming me on taking comparisons to extremes? You are being funny now.
Non-Christians abort many times over than Christians do. Tens of millions so far.
Real Christians do not endorse abortion!
"When it comes to organizations such as Planned Parenthood, there is absolutely no biblical justification for Christian support (Proverbs 6:16–19). Those who find that statement offensive should consider the ghastly alternative: claiming the name of Christ while endorsing an organization that profits from the murder of the innocent."
Planned Parenthood is helping to committing Evil, plain and simple
Read more here:
How should a Christian view Planned Parenthood? | GotQuestions.org
Please give me an example of your perceived anti-minority violence in the name of God?
If you even have an example, how would that compare to violence from minorities or non-minorities (that have no religion in their hearts) that are committed on others?
IF I were to be murdered or robbed tomorrow, the odds are that it is from someone without religion in their heart. Someone is who lost.
I doubt if any President in USA history started a war ever, because of his religion. If you might be talking about Bush, he mostly talks out of his ass. He probably used it as an excuse. God doesn't want wars. Only bad people want wars.
"Dying from a car wreck due to a drunk or a religious believer would make no difference to the outcome". If all those stupid drunks would of not drank their silly heads off the way they did before going out and killing and maiming with their steel bullet cars, a lot of innocent people would still be alive.
You mentioned above that beer is less deadly than religion. Tell that to the dead people who die at the hands of alcohol every year. I doubt if they would believe you.
Yes, the Catholic Church did attempt to bury their own sex cases just like everyone does, even Atheists. Those clergy did not sin in the name of religion like you accuse them of. IF you even think for a moment that I am excusing what they did then you are wrong.
Please remember one thing: The vast majority of sex crimes are not committed by clergy or religious people. So, who does that leave then? Non-religious people that's who. It's like you are walking around saying the only sex crimes are committed by clergy when they are not.
I read that more people are identifying as not being Christian or religious. Murders, rapes, robberies, ect are all on the rise. Maybe there is a connection.
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