God is the Devil?

[Free Thinker]

Quote from peilthetraveler:

There is no debating about whether or not salvation is a matter of grace -- it is (Eph. 2:8). We are not saved by works of our own righteousness but according to God's mercy (Titus 3:5). The question is whether or not there are works of another class included within the realm of grace? Does the Bible teach there are "works" which exclude boasting consistent with divine grace?

The Bible says that Abraham was saved by "works" (Jam. 2:21-23). These were works of faith, that is, obedience to God which was rooted in and sprang forth from faith (Heb. 11:8, 17-19). There is no sense in which the works which Abraham did can be said to have been "his own works." He did not appoint the journey. He did not originate the sacrifice of his only son. God asked for these things and Abraham with implicit trust obeyed God.

Thus, we are urged to walk in the steps of Abraham's faith (Rom. 4:12). How can we so walk, if "doing" nullifies grace?

Peter clearly declares salvation is promised to him that fears God and works righteousness (Acts 10:34-35). Paul affirms that he preached in order to secure from others the "obedience of faith" (Rom. 1:5; 16:26). Such obedience is not inconsistent with grace, but establishes grace (Rom. 6:15-18).


Luke 7:50

Jesus said to the woman, "Your faith has saved you; go in peace"

the concept of salvation is a primitive concept born out of a superstitious mind frearing the unknowm. it has no basis in fact.
it is interesting how christians allow themselves to be selfcentered hypocrits who never lift a finger to help the poor and yet are still able to delude themselves into thinking that it is good enough to just believe and still get into the mythical place called heaven where the streets are paved in gold.
that thinking opens up one of the most repulsive aspects of christianity today. that being if hitler believed in jesus he gets saved but his jewish victims who did not believe jesus devine are tortured in hell forever.

 

[stu]

Quote from murray t turtle:

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P-traveler;
Good points & good perception.

And i understand the original poster's confusion concerning the God & the devil. God is not the author of that confusion, but the devil is known to pretend to be an ''angel of light''

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not good T-murraaay :eek:

if that were so, you have evil appearing to be good and then any idea of freewill goes straight down the crapper.

Perhaps you really should think this stuff through a little more carefully.

 

[peilthetraveler]

Quote from vhehn:

it is interesting how christians allow themselves to be selfcentered hypocrits who never lift a finger to help the poor and yet are still able to delude themselves into thinking that it is good enough to just believe and still get into the mythical place called heaven where the streets are paved in gold.
that thinking opens up one of the most repulsive aspects of christianity today. that being if hitler believed in jesus he gets saved but his jewish victims who did not believe jesus devine are tortured in hell forever.

As for Hitler....Jesus said on the day of judgement "many will say Lord, Lord, we cast out demons and performed many miracles in your name. To which he replies 'depart from me you evildoers, for i never knew you'

And what do you mean Christians never lift a finger? its the Atheists that never lift a finger. How many "Atheist charity drives" have you ever heard of? How many Atheists do you see giving money to the poor? If someone is on the street hungry and homeless, who are the people that come around with blankets, and food? I've never seen or even heard of an atheist doing this.

Its pretty obvious you choose not to believe in God because you dont like the concept of hell. You think its unfair(maybe because you think you are going their if it's true), yet you are offered the gift of salvation but refuse to take it because you think hell is unfair. Its ridiculous really. Its like the police catch you doing a crime, tell you that you are going to jail for the rest of your life. Then you are offered the best lawyer in the world (Jesus), but you refuse you take him because you think you can represent yourself better...or maybe you think that the judge wont show up for court.

You mind is blinded Vhehn. You are obviously either not reading or not understanding what I am writing since you state things in your posts that I just answered.

 

[Free Thinker]

Quote from peilthetraveler:

Its pretty obvious you choose not to believe in God because you dont like the concept of hell. You think its unfair(maybe because you think you are going their if it's true),

i will bet i spent more years as a christian believer than you have been alive. it is the evidence that made me see the truth of the mass delusion.
as far as hell goes how can someone fear something they know does not exist. it does not take much of a deep thinker to learn how the concept of hell was concieved in the mind of men.
what is it in the christian mind that makes them believe in spite of the evidence? are you lacking self confidence that you cling to stone age mythology that offers to protect you?

 

[Free Thinker]

Quote from murray t turtle:

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God is not the author of that confusion,

do christian even read their bible?

I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things. (Isaiah 45:7, KJV)

 

[Hansel H]

Quote from TraderZones:

if humans are finite and limited in their thinking, why do they think they can grasp the purposes of someone who is omnipotent

from a biblical point of view, why the Devil is allowed to exist and proper is rather clear. However, whether or not people accept this leads to this:

Why aren't we able to grasp the cosmos, and resort to "11+ dimensional space, Dark Energy, Dark matter, string theories and multiverses"? Why does not God just make everything clear? Again, why are humans (who are just a tiny bit beyond termites) worrying about why "God" does what he does?

If God simply bestowed a perfect understanding on us there would be no need for us to have either intelligence or free will. There would be nothing to differentiate us from the termite whose understanding of its world is instinctual (God-given) and whose actions are determined soley by automatic responses to stimuli in its environment.

So why does God give us intelligence and free will? We are made in God's image - that is, God, like us, has intelligence and free will. In this way we are God's children - created so that God could have something to love in an otherwise dead and deterministic world.

God be with you, brother TraderZones.

Saint Hansel

 

[Free Thinker]

Quote from Hansel H:

If God simply bestowed a perfect understanding on us there would be no need for us to have either intelligence or free will. There would be nothing to differentiate us from the termite whose understanding of its world is instinctual (God-given) and whose actions are determined soley by automatic responses to stimuli in its environment.

So why does God give us intelligence and free will? We are made in God's image - that is, God, like us, has intelligence and free will. In this way we are God's children - created so that God could have something to love in an otherwise dead and deterministic world.

God be with you, brother TraderZones.

Saint Hansel

if god exists and if man uses his intelligence to examine the evidence and determines that that there is no god who is the failure? man or a supposedly omnipotent god who could provide evidence to prove he exists but refuses to do so. then this supposedly loving god who refuses to provide evidence condems all who dont believe to an eternity of torture.
you call this loving?

 

[Hansel H]

Quote from vhehn:

if god exists and if man uses his intelligence to examine the evidence and determines that that there is no god who is the failure? man or a supposedly omnipotent god who could provide evidence to prove he exists but refuses to do so. then this supposedly loving god who refuses to provide evidence condems all who dont believe to an eternity of torture.
you call this loving?

Perhaps those of us who examine indications of the non-existence of God (whatever that could possibly be) are selectively assigning 'evidence' status to mere indications of a possibility and then proceeding to a conclusion that suits their personal needs. If this is the case those persons would be engaging in a kind of wilfull ignorance of the more compelling God-provided indications in this world, and in ourselves in particular, of the existence of God (or so say I here). [ You can flip this argument around, of course, but that's a choice based not on logic but on mere preference.]

In any case, God can't spell it out for us without making us lesser beings.

And let's forget all that fire and brimstone stuff; it's an anachronistic contradiction left over from the Old, Old Testament and it will all be omitted in the next evolutionary stage of the Bible.

 

[jficquette]

Quote from killthesunshine:

If God really is omnipotent why does He allow the Devil to exist and prosper?

Devil is a myth invented by religions to control the masses. No such thing as heaven or hell. No such thing as death. Its just an illusion.

 

[peilthetraveler]

Quote from jficquette:

Devil is a myth invented by religions to control the masses. No such thing as heaven or hell. No such thing as death. Its just an illusion.

Hmm...what should i believe....the bible, or row, row, row your boat, gently down the stream, merrily merrily merrily merrily, life is but a dream.

The devil has been dressed like santa clause to make you believe he doesnt exist. (the guy with a pitchfork and horns is as real as the fat guy that comes down your chimeny and brings you presents.) Although if you take time to study both those beings, you will see a much different picture. You will find that st. nick was a real person about 1000 years ago, he just got so distorted that he is unbelieveable now. Same with the devil.