GM Bailout collapses !!! wow !!!

Quote from jsmith:



GM's average hourly wage was $73 an hour. Toyota's was $48.

GM was spending nearly $1,600 in healthcare costs for every car sold, compared to $201 for Toyota. .

sounds like more bulshit folklore stats coming from nowhere.
BAck up the 73$ figure....I bet its more like low 20s, if even.

Amazing how people here are willing to jump on unions for 15bil but are silent when it comes to crooks at aig getting what ,20x that much?

BTW,management signed those contracts and has been unable to build quality and efficient cars for 30yrs.

And gm's healthcare costs are a perfect reason why we should have national healthcare.Private healthcare doesnt work and is bankrupting corporations and individuals.Healthcare is the cause of 50% of bankruptcies in this country.
 
Quote from dsq:

sounds like more bulshit folklore stats coming from nowhere.
BAck up the 73$ figure....I bet its more like low 20s, if even.

Amazing how people here are willing to jump on unions for 15bil but are silent when it comes to crooks at aig getting what ,20x that much?

BTW,management signed those contracts and has been unable to build quality and efficient cars for 30yrs.

And gm's healthcare costs are a perfect reason why we should have national healthcare.Private healthcare doesnt work and is bankrupting corporations and individuals.Healthcare is the cause of 50% of bankruptcies in this country.

But why is healthcare so expensive, in a privatized is it suppose to be lower then in socialised because of competition, but that is not the case. Apparently it has also something to do with the malpractice lawsuits insurance that have to be paid. And the reason the malpractice insurance is high is because people who successfully sue get alot of money, and that's because there's no general social security in the US.
 
Quote from college_trad3r:

But why is healthcare so expensive, in a privatized is it suppose to be lower then in socialised because of competition, but that is not the case. Apparently it has also something to do with the malpractice lawsuits insurance that have to be paid. And the reason the malpractice insurance is high is because people who successfully sue get alot of money, and that's because there's no general social security in the US.

greed and corruption?

how imorral is it that you live in modern country where the healthcare system can deny you service if you have "pre existing conditions"?
Your life has a cost to them.If your illness is too expensive to fix they will do anything to let you die.

I think i read some where that our healthcare or life expectancy ranks 37th in the world-below slovenia.
 
Quote from dsq:

sounds like more bulshit folklore stats coming from nowhere.
BAck up the 73$ figure....I bet its more like low 20s, if even.

Amazing how people here are willing to jump on unions for 15bil but are silent when it comes to crooks at aig getting what ,20x that much?

BTW,management signed those contracts and has been unable to build quality and efficient cars for 30yrs.

And gm's healthcare costs are a perfect reason why we should have national healthcare.Private healthcare doesnt work and is bankrupting corporations and individuals.Healthcare is the cause of 50% of bankruptcies in this country.

I too have seen those $73 vs. $48 labor cost/hour figures in a major publication, but I can't put my finger on it right now. However, the difference is the benefits to retirees. Base wages and benefits to the workers actually working in the plant today aren't that different.
 
Quote from dsq:

greed and corruption?

how imorral is it that you live in modern country where the healthcare system can deny you service if you have "pre existing conditions"?
Your life has a cost to them.If your illness is too expensive to fix they will do anything to let you die.

I think i read some where that our healthcare or life expectancy ranks 37th in the world-below slovenia.

http://www.photius.com/rankings/healthranks.html

The U.S. is #37. Slovenia is #38.
 
Quote from bighog:

This is not over yet. Regardless what happens from this point on there is one thing we all know for sure. The losers in the long run will be all the "foreign fucks" car makers.

BUY AMERICAN will be the mantra and we will get our shit together and the foreign fucks will be the losers.

We will do to "FF" carmakers what the women did to fur coats. hahahahahahaahah

PS: i will start the ball rolling by dumping my "KRAUT CAR" :D

http://www.netlegion.com/sdrozdet/2006/12/take-that-kraut-car.html
Bighog...funny you typed this!!! I was online checking out the new 2009 F-150 XLT CrewCab 4X4 Lariat last night (while thinking about dumping one of my Audi's.....LOL!!!!!!).

I have NEVER yet owned a pick up truck in my entire life (several SUV's though) as I have driven sport sedans for many years as my primary vehicle. I was recently looking at an H3 (which they are DUMPING these days) but the new F-150 looks like a better all around vehicle for my future needs. :)
 
Quote from college_trad3r:

But why is healthcare so expensive, in a privatized is it suppose to be lower then in socialised because of competition, but that is not the case. Apparently it has also something to do with the malpractice lawsuits insurance that have to be paid. And the reason the malpractice insurance is high is because people who successfully sue get alot of money, and that's because there's no general social security in the US.

Has nothing to do with social security and has EVERYTHING to do with our legal system which is like winning the lottery, and is designed to benefit the lawyers who file frivolous lawsuits in order to get settlements because it's cheaper for the insurance, hospital and pharma companies to settle baseless lawsuits than take them to trial.

Compare to the legal system in Japan, where a) the number of lawyers is 1/1000th of the U.S., and b) their system requires the losing side to pay the other sides legal costs. Poof! There go all the lawyers running away with their frivolous lawsuits.

Of course, we'll never seen meaningful reform in this country because a) the majority of congress are lawyers, and b) the tort legal industry is the primary $ suppporter to Democrats (right there with the unions).
 
http://www.heritage.org/Research/Economy/wm2162.cfm

UAW Workers Actually Cost the Big Three Automakers $70 an Hour

The United Auto Workers (UAW) wants Congress to bail out General Motors, Ford, and Chrysler to prevent their undergoing restructuring in bankruptcy proceedings. In bankruptcy, a judge could order union contracts to be renegotiated to reflect competitive realities. Many analysts have objected that hourly autoworkers at the Big Three are some of the most highly paid workers in America, costing the Big Three over $70 an hour in wages and current and future benefits. All taxpayers should not be taxed to preserve the affluence of a few.

Some observers argue that UAW members do not actually earn this much. They argue this figure includes the cost of benefits paid to current retirees as well as wages and benefits paid to current workers and that the actual hourly earnings of current UAW members are much lower. This is a mistaken interpretation of the financial data released by the Detroit automakers.
wm2162_chart1.gif

UAW workers are highly paid, but not all this compensation comes as cash wages. Breaking the $73.26 figure down, General Motors reports that it pays base wages of roughly $30 an hour. At the end of December 2006, the average vehicle assembler at GM earned $28.02 an hour; the average machine repair electrician earned $32.43.[2]

Other provisions raise cash earnings above this base pay. For example, workers at Ford earn 10 percent premium payments for taking midnight shifts and double time for overtime hours worked on Sundays.[3]

Autoworkers put in substantial overtime hours at higher rates, raising earnings above their base pay. GM reported that its average hourly employee worked 315 overtime hours in 2006. Including all monetary payments--base wages, shift premiums, overtime pay, as well as vacation and holiday pay--GM reported an average hourly pay of $39.68 an hour in 2006. About 54 percent of the average UAW employee at GM's earnings came in cash in 2006.

Earned Benefits

The remaining $33.58 an hour of hourly labor costs that GM reports--46 percent of total compensation--was paid as benefits.
These benefits include:

* Hospital, surgical, and prescription drug benefits;
* Dental and vision benefits;
* Group life insurance;
* Disability benefits;
* Supplemental Unemployment Benefits (SUB);
* Pension payments to workers pensions accounts to be paid out at retirement;
* Unemployment compensation; and
* Payroll taxes (employer's share).

Excludes Legacy Costs

The hourly benefit figures the Detroit automakers report covers the cost of current and future benefits earned by actively working employees. It does not include the cost of paying health benefits and pensions to current retirees.


Now who was saying that the $70/hour figure is made-up or that it includes retiree benefits? Please put up or shut up.
 
Smartest thing Congress has yet to do.

No need to bail out the Auto Makers unless the Unions give in.

This market is going to 6000 as needed.
 
Quote from dsq:

greed and corruption?

how imorral is it that you live in modern country where the healthcare system can deny you service if you have "pre existing conditions"?
Your life has a cost to them.If your illness is too expensive to fix they will do anything to let you die.

I think i read some where that our healthcare or life expectancy ranks 37th in the world-below slovenia.

I think everyone in this country should cancel their health insurance policies, put the health insurance companies out of business, so we have to chance to see national healthcare paid by tax dollars. No copays or deductibles, where one can see any doctor they want and the doctor submits the bill to a single payor, Uncle Sam. Fees would depend on the procedure of course and be fixed at the same price for all doctors.
 
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