gm alliance - i don't get it...

Obviously the tape disagrees with you.

I'll give you an example of how I used similar logic as you and got burned out of what turned out to be over a million bucks.

In 2000 I sold my AM seat at the CBOT. Seat prices were falling and for good reason. The CBOT had just spent 180 million on a new trading floor for the Treasuries and it was a white elephant by the day it opened. After all no need for a floor with the volume going to the screen. Plus the CBOT was on the hook for millions a year to Dow Jones in licensing fees for a DJ contract (pit traded YM) that was doing little volume in relation to it's cost. BrokerTec, CantorFitz and Eurex were all threatening to list Treasuries (they all eventually DID) and it seemed the CBOT monopoly on those products was at risk. Recently departed President Tom Donovan had received a 10 million dollar package unbeknownst to the rank and file. Pretty negative, eh? Well if I'd kept my seat my pro rata shares would be worth exactly ten times more (1.2 million) than what I sold the seat for. Betting on GM to go broke or the CBOT for that matter, is not the percentage bet but rather the anomaly.
Quote from niceneasy:

im sorry - im not buying ANY of this. the company is de facto bankrupt. burning about a half to a billion a month in cash . 300 odd billion in debt. on the hook for 10 or 30 billion for delphi which is a huge mess.

you can watch the market share go down literally by the hour.

the only product they have making any money are the suvs and NOBODY is buying those. thats only gonna get worse as oil goes up...they have a broad portfolio of cars that nobody wants that they have to continue producing to keep the union happy.

its bonds are junk. GM owes its bondholders about $113 billion, of which almost $15 billion falls due this year with an additional $27 billion scheduled for repayment next year. they only have 20 or so billion in the bank last time i checked a few months ago. what am i missing here?

they lose money every time they sell a car.

as for quality - a 10 year old toyota has less service issues than a brand new gm. more product recalls than any other manufacturer. save yugo lol. visit a gm factory parking lot for the real writing on the wall.

why ally with gm? could pick the bones over for a few cents on the dollar in a few years.

the employee buyouts are equivalent to rearranging the deck chairs on the titanic pre plunge.

the ceo is a bum as far as i am concerned. if they had any balls - they'd dividend out all the cash save for a few months operating expenses and then start negotiating with the unions. cut all the fat out of the model, kill all and any brands that arent profitable. but they wont - they will bleed to death slowly and then rely on taxpayers to bail them out. then they will do the same thing over again. just like the airlines. fuck the equity holders.fuck the bond holders. fuck the taxpayers. pay the management.

i dont get it. im not short or long so have no vested interests either way but who the hell would be buying htis p.o.s???
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Quote from niceneasy:

just like the airlines. fuck the equity holders.fuck the bond holders. fuck the taxpayers. pay the management.
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You got it. See Air Canada for the model on how to do this, repeatedly.

The idea that European and Japanese cars are less reliable or worse in initial quality is bizarre. Someone on here posted a while ago that he thought a BMW 750iL wasn't as good in initial quality as a Buick LeSabre, or something like that. What garbage.

Ask your local mechanic what he thinks.
 
Quote from MRWSM:

You got them all right except #1 =terrible product quality. I have proved on these boards many times using non biased means of testing long term durability of GM vehicles and each time shows that GM is unsurpassed in long term durability. Yet people who know nothing keep hammering on the same statement of quality issues.

Myself having my GM vehicles go 300,000 miles before selling them, I can't see how you can expect anything better. I know a fleet owner that has GMC vans regularly go 500,000 miles to a million miles before renewing the fleet. His drivers put 100,000 miles a year on average for each van.
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500,000?!?! That is incredible compared to what we get on our fleet.

Silverado and F-150 trucks have a short life as far as my experience with them also. The Silverado has been recalled so many times and the some of the repairs weren't done well. We might buy a Japanese brand. To my regret Chevy and Ford quality and service was unacceptable.

However, I do like our new Denali and the new product lines seem to be improving a lot.
 
In Canada an average ( maybe mediocre is the word) GM workers pension is about $45k a year. While they whine about benefits being cut, the union really is leading the lemmings over the cliff. How can an uneducated ( how many finished high school?) worker get paid $35 an hr and make up to $100k a year with overtime driving a tow motor around the yard?

My family hasnt owned an american made car since 1988. I live in a community where GM products are made, and I dont support difficient products regardless of their being made in my town. All 4 cars since 1988 have been excellent quality Toyotas. All were either Camrys or Sienas, can't speak for their other cars.
 
Quote from traderNik:

You got it. See Air Canada for the model on how to do this, repeatedly.

The idea that European and Japanese cars are less reliable or worse in initial quality is bizarre. Someone on here posted a while ago that he thought a BMW 750iL wasn't as good in initial quality as a Buick LeSabre, or something like that. What garbage.

Ask your local mechanic what he thinks.
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I think you are talking about me. Exactly, talk to a mechanic that works on BMW's and they will tell you they all have the same common problems over and over. Radiator, heater core, expansion tank all time bombs ready to go at any minute because they are so poorly designed in plastic. Add to this their engine temperature monitor marks under the red zone when in fact the engine is getting destroyed by heat. Oil pump bolts that need to be re-tightened over and over, at the same time the oil pump spits out broken plastic parts into the sump, this is not a big issue but if by any slim chance one of these lemons makes it to 150,000 miles the lack of proper oil pressure results in the very common and fatal engine knock. Just a few of the most common and very expensive problems with BMW 7 series. Engines cost $12,000 to replace. I can bring up the original post for the entire list if you desire.

http://home.earthlink.net/~hainesinutah/radiator/

http://www.geocities.com/wallstreetmoney1/Automotive.html
 
Quote from RXIS:

500,000?!?! That is incredible compared to what we get on our fleet.

Silverado and F-150 trucks have a short life as far as my experience with them also. The Silverado has been recalled so many times and the some of the repairs weren't done well. We might buy a Japanese brand. To my regret Chevy and Ford quality and service was unacceptable.

However, I do like our new Denali and the new product lines seem to be improving a lot.
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I just happened upon this one without even looking. It says 461,000 miles but I thought it was a misprint and maybe it was 161k and it might be a good deal. When I called they said it actually has 467,000 miles and is in perfect shape, the guy said it would do several more hundred thousand miles with no problem.

If anyone has a question of quality this should satisfy your question.

http://www.cars.com/go/search/detai...nal&paId=203861130&recnum=123&leadExists=true
 
Yeah it's good to have a gull winged doored super car tucked away in the garage. But for actual driving it's good to know a GM will take you half a million miles.
 
In regards to the current GM issue an earlier attempt was made to bring together automotive giants during the early 90's. i.e Chrysler/Dodge=Mitsubishi, GM=Toyota, Ford=Mazda. etc. GM will most likely not enter into a complete merger with Nissan but rather a small platform crossing between the two companies as has happen before with others.
Kirk does not have enough clout even with the money invested to effectively make Wagoner move nor GM. The GM board is probably laughing at him because they have his money and could pull the rug at any time. There is still the Delphi issue to deal with and until that is corrected. I see I see GM enjoying the news play to distract the public from the underlying issues.
 
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