fc - the issue fc is that you have no history to show co2 leads temps.
our long term chart show temps lead co2.
Your charts are inside the cycle. Your models are failing and your scientists admit fraud in their emails... and now some are saying co2 is still important but the sun and the ocean may be important too.
Which is the precursor to understanding your guys were bullshitting for grants.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencet...A-scientists-right-Thames-freezing-again.html
Forget global warming - it's Cycle 25 we need to worry about (and if NASA scientists are right the Thames will be freezing over again)
Met Office releases new figures which show no warming in 15 years
By DAVID ROSE
UPDATED: 00:38 EST, 29 January 2012
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The supposed âconsensusâ on man-made global warming is facing an inconvenient challenge after the release of new temperature data showing the planet has not warmed for the past 15 years.
The figures suggest that we could even be heading for a mini ice age to rival the 70-year temperature drop that saw frost fairs held on the Thames in the 17th Century.
Based on readings from more than 30,000 measuring stations, the data was issued last week without fanfare by the Met Office and the University of East Anglia Climatic Research Unit. It confirms that the rising trend in world temperatures ended in 1997.
A painting, dated 1684, by Abraham Hondius depicts one of many frost fairs on the River Thames during the mini ice age
Meanwhile, leading climate scientists yesterday told The Mail on Sunday that, after emitting unusually high levels of energy throughout the 20th Century, the sun is now heading towards a âgrand minimumâ in its output, threatening cold summers, bitter winters and a shortening of the season available for growing food.
Solar output goes through 11-year cycles, with high numbers of sunspots seen at their peak.
We are now at what should be the peak of what scientists call âCycle 24â â which is why last weekâs solar storm resulted in sightings of the aurora borealis further south than usual. But sunspot numbers are running at less than half those seen during cycle peaks in the 20th Century.
Analysis by experts at NASA and the University of Arizona â derived from magnetic-field measurements 120,000 miles beneath the sunâs surface â suggest that Cycle 25, whose peak is due in 2022, will be a great deal weaker still.
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According to a paper issued last week by the Met Office, there is a 92 per cent chance that both Cycle 25 and those taking place in the following decades will be as weak as, or weaker than, the âDalton minimumâ of 1790 to 1830. In this period, named after the meteorologist John Dalton, average temperatures in parts of Europe fell by 2C.
However, it is also possible that the new solar energy slump could be as deep as the âMaunder minimumâ (after astronomer Edward Maunder), between 1645 and 1715 in the coldest part of the âLittle Ice Ageâ when, as well as the Thames frost fairs, the canals of Holland froze solid.
Yet, in its paper, the Met Office claimed that the consequences now would be negligible â because the impact of the sun on climate is far less than man-made carbon dioxide. Although the sunâs output is likely to decrease until 2100, âThis would only cause a reduction in global temperatures of 0.08C.â Peter Stott, one of the authors, said: âOur findings suggest a reduction of solar activity to levels not seen in hundreds of years would be insufficient to offset the dominant influence of greenhouse gases.â
These findings are fiercely disputed by other solar experts.
âWorld temperatures may end up a lot cooler than now for 50 years or more,â said Henrik Svensmark, director of the Center for Sun-Climate Research at Denmarkâs National Space Institute. âIt will take a long battle to convince some climate scientists that the sun is important. It may well be that the sun is going to demonstrate this on its own, without the need for their help.â
He pointed out that, in claiming the effect of the solar minimum would be small, the Met Office was relying on the same computer models that are being undermined by the current pause in global-warming.
CO2 levels have continued to rise without interruption and, in 2007, the Met Office claimed that global warming was about to âcome roaring backâ. It said that between 2004 and 2014 there would be an overall increase of 0.3C. In 2009, it predicted that at least three of the years 2009 to 2014 would break the previous temperature record set in 1998.
So far there is no sign of any of this happening. But yesterday a Met Office spokesman insisted its models were still valid.
âThe ten-year projection remains groundbreaking science. The period for the original projection is not over yet,â he said.
Dr Nicola Scafetta, of Duke University in North Carolina, is the author of several papers that argue the Met Office climate models show there should have been âsteady warming from 2000 until nowâ.
âIf temperatures continue to stay flat or start to cool again, the divergence between the models and recorded data will eventually become so great that the whole scientific community will question the current theories,â he said.
He believes that as the Met Office model attaches much greater significance to CO2 than to the sun, it was bound to conclude that there would not be cooling. âThe real issue is whether the model itself is accurate,â Dr Scafetta said. Meanwhile, one of Americaâs most eminent climate experts, Professor Judith Curry of the Georgia Institute of Technology, said she found the Met Officeâs confident prediction of a ânegligibleâ impact difficult to understand.
âThe responsible thing to do would be to accept the fact that the models may have severe shortcomings when it comes to the influence of the sun,â said Professor Curry. As for the warming pause, she said that many scientists âare not surprisedâ.
She argued it is becoming evident that factors other than CO2 play an important role in rising or falling warmth, such as the 60-year water temperature cycles in the Pacific and Atlantic oceans.
âThey have insufficiently been appreciated in terms of global climate,â said Prof Curry. When both oceans were cold in the past, such as from 1940 to 1970, the climate cooled. The Pacific cycle âflippedâ back from warm to cold mode in 2008 and the Atlantic is also thought likely to flip in the next few years .
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