Glenn Reynolds: After Yale, Mizzou, raise the voting age — to 25

How can students too spoiled to tolerate debate weigh opposing political arguments? They can't.

In 1971, the United States ratified the 26th Amendment, lowering the voting age from 21 to 18. In retrospect, that may have been a mistake.

The idea, in those Vietnam years, was that 18-year-olds, being old enough to be drafted, to marry and to serve on juries, deserved a vote. It seemed plausible at the time, and I myself have argued in the past that we should set the drinking age at 18 for the same reasons.

But now I’m starting to reconsider. To be a voter, one must be able to participate in adult political discussions. It’s necessary to be able to listen to opposing arguments and even — as I’m doing right here in this column — to change your mind in response to new evidence.

But now the evidence suggests that, whatever one might say about the 18-year-olds of 1971, the 18-year-olds of today aren’t up to that task. And even the 21-year-olds aren’t looking so good.

Consider Yale University, where a disagreement over what to do about — theoretically — offensive Halloween costumes devolved into a screaming fit by a Yale senior (old enough to vote, thanks to the 26th Amendment), who assaulted a professor with a profane tirade because the professor's failure to agree with her made her feel . . . unsafe.

As The Atlantic’s Conor Friedersdorf writes: “Erika Christakis reflected on the frustrations of the students, drew on her scholarship and career experience, and composed an email inviting the community to think about the controversy through an intellectual lens that few if any had considered. Her message was a model of relevant, thoughtful, civil engagement. For her trouble, a faction of students are now trying to get the couple removed from their residential positions, which is to say, censured and ousted from their home on campus. Hundreds of Yale students are attacking them, some with hateful insults, shouted epithets, and a campaign of public shaming. In doing so, they have shown an illiberal streak that flows from flaws in their well-intentioned ideology.”

This isn’t the behavior of people who are capable of weighing opposing ideas, or of changing their minds when they are confronted with evidence that suggests that they are wrong. It’s the behavior of spoiled children — a characterization that Friedersdorf, perhaps unconsciously, underscores by not reporting the students’ names because, he implies, they are too young to be responsible for their actions. And spoiled children shouldn’t vote.

And this is at Yale, where — alarmingly — the students are supposed to represent America’s leaders of tomorrow. But the problem isn’t just at Yale, as the University of Missouri recently saw student protests oust a president for . . . well, it’s not entirely clear what he did, but it had something to do with not being sensitive enough to students’ feelings. Nor, sadly, are such events unique; campus craziness has become a standard story line, with new examples appearing almost daily.

As Reason’s Robby Soave notes, student demands for “safe spaces” boil down to a demand that universities fulfill the role of Mommy and Daddy. In the old days — this practice, interestingly, ended about 1971, too — colleges stood in loco parentis (in the place of parents) and, as Soave noted, exercised extensive and detailed control over students’ social lives, sleeping hours, organizing and speaking. Now, he observes, the students are “desperate to be treated like children again.”

Well, okay, I guess. But children don’t vote. Those too fragile to handle different opinions are too fragile to participate in politics. So maybe we should raise the voting age to 25, an age at which, one fervently hopes, some degree of maturity will have set in. It’s bad enough to have to treat college students like children. But it’s intolerable to be governed by spoiled children. People who can’t discuss Halloween costumes rationally don’t deserve to play a role in running a great nation.

http://www.usatoday.com/story/opini...ri-protests-political-debate-column/75577468/
 
How can students too spoiled to tolerate debate weigh opposing political arguments? They can't.

In 1971, the United States ratified the 26th Amendment, lowering the voting age from 21 to 18. In retrospect, that may have been a mistake.

The idea, in those Vietnam years, was that 18-year-olds, being old enough to be drafted, to marry and to serve on juries, deserved a vote. It seemed plausible at the time, and I myself have argued in the past that we should set the drinking age at 18 for the same reasons.

But now I’m starting to reconsider. To be a voter, one must be able to participate in adult political discussions. It’s necessary to be able to listen to opposing arguments and even — as I’m doing right here in this column — to change your mind in response to new evidence.

But now the evidence suggests that, whatever one might say about the 18-year-olds of 1971, the 18-year-olds of today aren’t up to that task. And even the 21-year-olds aren’t looking so good.

Consider Yale University, where a disagreement over what to do about — theoretically — offensive Halloween costumes devolved into a screaming fit by a Yale senior (old enough to vote, thanks to the 26th Amendment), who assaulted a professor with a profane tirade because the professor's failure to agree with her made her feel . . . unsafe.

As The Atlantic’s Conor Friedersdorf writes: “Erika Christakis reflected on the frustrations of the students, drew on her scholarship and career experience, and composed an email inviting the community to think about the controversy through an intellectual lens that few if any had considered. Her message was a model of relevant, thoughtful, civil engagement. For her trouble, a faction of students are now trying to get the couple removed from their residential positions, which is to say, censured and ousted from their home on campus. Hundreds of Yale students are attacking them, some with hateful insults, shouted epithets, and a campaign of public shaming. In doing so, they have shown an illiberal streak that flows from flaws in their well-intentioned ideology.”

This isn’t the behavior of people who are capable of weighing opposing ideas, or of changing their minds when they are confronted with evidence that suggests that they are wrong. It’s the behavior of spoiled children — a characterization that Friedersdorf, perhaps unconsciously, underscores by not reporting the students’ names because, he implies, they are too young to be responsible for their actions. And spoiled children shouldn’t vote.

And this is at Yale, where — alarmingly — the students are supposed to represent America’s leaders of tomorrow. But the problem isn’t just at Yale, as the University of Missouri recently saw student protests oust a president for . . . well, it’s not entirely clear what he did, but it had something to do with not being sensitive enough to students’ feelings. Nor, sadly, are such events unique; campus craziness has become a standard story line, with new examples appearing almost daily.

As Reason’s Robby Soave notes, student demands for “safe spaces” boil down to a demand that universities fulfill the role of Mommy and Daddy. In the old days — this practice, interestingly, ended about 1971, too — colleges stood in loco parentis (in the place of parents) and, as Soave noted, exercised extensive and detailed control over students’ social lives, sleeping hours, organizing and speaking. Now, he observes, the students are “desperate to be treated like children again.”

Well, okay, I guess. But children don’t vote. Those too fragile to handle different opinions are too fragile to participate in politics. So maybe we should raise the voting age to 25, an age at which, one fervently hopes, some degree of maturity will have set in. It’s bad enough to have to treat college students like children. But it’s intolerable to be governed by spoiled children. People who can’t discuss Halloween costumes rationally don’t deserve to play a role in running a great nation.

http://www.usatoday.com/story/opini...ts-political-debate-column/75577468/[/QUOTE]I dou
I doubt they will get any smarter when they get older.
I know some stupid people, and they aint getting any younger.
 
How can students too spoiled to tolerate debate weigh opposing political arguments? They can't.

In 1971, the United States ratified the 26th Amendment, lowering the voting age from 21 to 18. In retrospect, that may have been a mistake.

The idea, in those Vietnam years, was that 18-year-olds, being old enough to be drafted, to marry and to serve on juries, deserved a vote. It seemed plausible at the time, and I myself have argued in the past that we should set the drinking age at 18 for the same reasons.

But now I’m starting to reconsider. To be a voter, one must be able to participate in adult political discussions. It’s necessary to be able to listen to opposing arguments and even — as I’m doing right here in this column — to change your mind in response to new evidence.

But now the evidence suggests that, whatever one might say about the 18-year-olds of 1971, the 18-year-olds of today aren’t up to that task. And even the 21-year-olds aren’t looking so good.

Consider Yale University, where a disagreement over what to do about — theoretically — offensive Halloween costumes devolved into a screaming fit by a Yale senior (old enough to vote, thanks to the 26th Amendment), who assaulted a professor with a profane tirade because the professor's failure to agree with her made her feel . . . unsafe.

As The Atlantic’s Conor Friedersdorf writes: “Erika Christakis reflected on the frustrations of the students, drew on her scholarship and career experience, and composed an email inviting the community to think about the controversy through an intellectual lens that few if any had considered. Her message was a model of relevant, thoughtful, civil engagement. For her trouble, a faction of students are now trying to get the couple removed from their residential positions, which is to say, censured and ousted from their home on campus. Hundreds of Yale students are attacking them, some with hateful insults, shouted epithets, and a campaign of public shaming. In doing so, they have shown an illiberal streak that flows from flaws in their well-intentioned ideology.”

This isn’t the behavior of people who are capable of weighing opposing ideas, or of changing their minds when they are confronted with evidence that suggests that they are wrong. It’s the behavior of spoiled children — a characterization that Friedersdorf, perhaps unconsciously, underscores by not reporting the students’ names because, he implies, they are too young to be responsible for their actions. And spoiled children shouldn’t vote.

And this is at Yale, where — alarmingly — the students are supposed to represent America’s leaders of tomorrow. But the problem isn’t just at Yale, as the University of Missouri recently saw student protests oust a president for . . . well, it’s not entirely clear what he did, but it had something to do with not being sensitive enough to students’ feelings. Nor, sadly, are such events unique; campus craziness has become a standard story line, with new examples appearing almost daily.

As Reason’s Robby Soave notes, student demands for “safe spaces” boil down to a demand that universities fulfill the role of Mommy and Daddy. In the old days — this practice, interestingly, ended about 1971, too — colleges stood in loco parentis (in the place of parents) and, as Soave noted, exercised extensive and detailed control over students’ social lives, sleeping hours, organizing and speaking. Now, he observes, the students are “desperate to be treated like children again.”

Well, okay, I guess. But children don’t vote. Those too fragile to handle different opinions are too fragile to participate in politics. So maybe we should raise the voting age to 25, an age at which, one fervently hopes, some degree of maturity will have set in. It’s bad enough to have to treat college students like children. But it’s intolerable to be governed by spoiled children. People who can’t discuss Halloween costumes rationally don’t deserve to play a role in running a great nation.

http://www.usatoday.com/story/opinion/2015/11/11/raise-voting-age-25-yale-missouri-protest-political-debate-column/75577468/
There are at least two of us now that don't think 18 year-olds-should be allowed to vote for any thing beyond their class president. We got it wrong, hopelessly, horribly wrong when Reagan was president .

When 18-year-olds were given the right to vote the argument used was that if they were old enough to fight and die for their country, then they were old enough to vote. It was a statement that, when beautifully delivered in perfect cadence and pitch by the Commander and Chief, seemed to invite only one conclusion; nevertheless a statement that befuddled the logic of an entire nation. Eighteen-year-olds are neither old enough to fight and die for their country nor to vote. With, at most, a high school education they have neither the education nor wisdom to decide of their own free will whether gambling on getting killed or maimed is a good decision. Nor are they ready to reason through complex political issues. But I would rather have them voting then being sent into war zones where they have a good chance of being killed or maimed while believing in the propaganda they've been fed.

What we should have done instead is raise the minimum age that anyone could be sent into a war zone to 25 and raise the voting age to 25 as well. We should have left the drinking age at 18.
 
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There are at least two of us now that don't think 18 year-olds-should be allowed to vote for any thing beyond their class president. We got it wrong, hopelessly, horribly wrong when Reagan was president .

When 18-year-olds were given the right to vote the argument used was that if they were old enough to fight and die for their country, then they were old enough to vote. It was a statement that, when beautifully delivered in perfect cadence and pitch by the Commander and Chief, seemed to invite only one conclusion; nevertheless a statement that befuddled the logic of an entire nation. Eighteen-year-olds are neither old enough to fight and die for their country nor to vote. With, at most, a high school education they have neither the education nor wisdom to decide of their own free will whether gambling on getting killed or maimed is a good decision. Nor are they ready to reason through complex political issues. But I would rather have them voting then being sent into war zones where they have a good chance of being killed or maimed while believing in the propaganda they've been fed.

What we should have done instead is raise the minimum age that anyone could be sent into a war zone to 25 and raise the voting age to 25 as well. We should have left the drinking age at 18.
We should raise the minimum wage to $15.00/hr and raise the minimum working age to 25.
 
We should raise the minimum wage to $15.00/hr and raise the minimum working age to 25.
I'm OK with 15/hr, but it is a little high in constant dollars. $10 is about right, and then high cost areas can adopt locally higher minimums. In constant dollars the 1965 minimum was $10.50/hr. If the working age minimum is 25, then it is essential that the drinking age be lowered to 15 so that those younger than 25 will have something to do with their time.
 
I'm OK with 15/hr, but it is a little high in constant dollars. $10 is about right, and then high cost areas can adopt locally higher minimums. In constant dollars the 1965 minimum was $10.50/hr. If the working age minimum is 25, then it is essential that the drinking age be lowered to 15 so that those younger than 25 will have something to do with their time.
min wage is just taking money from one pocket and putting it in the other. But raising it is a useful tool. About 5 cents every three months sounds about right.
 
History and current events prove that 18 year olds are in no way thoughtful enough to be granted voting rights. They are, and I can speak from personal experience, just right for combat. Beyond the strength and endurance that comes with youth, they're just gullible enough to buy the bullshit, which is exactly why they shouldn't be voting. Gullibility.
 
How can students too spoiled to tolerate debate weigh opposing political arguments? They can't.

In 1971, the United States ratified the 26th Amendment, lowering the voting age from 21 to 18. In retrospect, that may have been a mistake.

The idea, in those Vietnam years, was that 18-year-olds, being old enough to be drafted, to marry and to serve on juries, deserved a vote. It seemed plausible at the time, and I myself have argued in the past that we should set the drinking age at 18 for the same reasons.

But now I’m starting to reconsider. To be a voter, one must be able to participate in adult political discussions. It’s necessary to be able to listen to opposing arguments and even — as I’m doing right here in this column — to change your mind in response to new evidence.

But now the evidence suggests that, whatever one might say about the 18-year-olds of 1971, the 18-year-olds of today aren’t up to that task. And even the 21-year-olds aren’t looking so good.

Consider Yale University, where a disagreement over what to do about — theoretically — offensive Halloween costumes devolved into a screaming fit by a Yale senior (old enough to vote, thanks to the 26th Amendment), who assaulted a professor with a profane tirade because the professor's failure to agree with her made her feel . . . unsafe.

As The Atlantic’s Conor Friedersdorf writes: “Erika Christakis reflected on the frustrations of the students, drew on her scholarship and career experience, and composed an email inviting the community to think about the controversy through an intellectual lens that few if any had considered. Her message was a model of relevant, thoughtful, civil engagement. For her trouble, a faction of students are now trying to get the couple removed from their residential positions, which is to say, censured and ousted from their home on campus. Hundreds of Yale students are attacking them, some with hateful insults, shouted epithets, and a campaign of public shaming. In doing so, they have shown an illiberal streak that flows from flaws in their well-intentioned ideology.”

This isn’t the behavior of people who are capable of weighing opposing ideas, or of changing their minds when they are confronted with evidence that suggests that they are wrong. It’s the behavior of spoiled children — a characterization that Friedersdorf, perhaps unconsciously, underscores by not reporting the students’ names because, he implies, they are too young to be responsible for their actions. And spoiled children shouldn’t vote.

And this is at Yale, where — alarmingly — the students are supposed to represent America’s leaders of tomorrow. But the problem isn’t just at Yale, as the University of Missouri recently saw student protests oust a president for . . . well, it’s not entirely clear what he did, but it had something to do with not being sensitive enough to students’ feelings. Nor, sadly, are such events unique; campus craziness has become a standard story line, with new examples appearing almost daily.

As Reason’s Robby Soave notes, student demands for “safe spaces” boil down to a demand that universities fulfill the role of Mommy and Daddy. In the old days — this practice, interestingly, ended about 1971, too — colleges stood in loco parentis (in the place of parents) and, as Soave noted, exercised extensive and detailed control over students’ social lives, sleeping hours, organizing and speaking. Now, he observes, the students are “desperate to be treated like children again.”

Well, okay, I guess. But children don’t vote. Those too fragile to handle different opinions are too fragile to participate in politics. So maybe we should raise the voting age to 25, an age at which, one fervently hopes, some degree of maturity will have set in. It’s bad enough to have to treat college students like children. But it’s intolerable to be governed by spoiled children. People who can’t discuss Halloween costumes rationally don’t deserve to play a role in running a great nation.

http://www.usatoday.com/story/opini...ri-protests-political-debate-column/75577468/

Here's another thought...

Biologist that I am... I've read that the transition from childhood to adulthood is more than just going through puberty. Neurologists have claimed the brain is undergoing maturity and changes (physical changes) in the "growing up" years, and the brain's physical transformation isn't complete until about age 25!

This partially explains why such a high percentage of marriages fail, especially among the young. Recall how divorced will often say, "we became different people... we just drifted apart"? I submit that they got married too young... because they were "in love", of course... were not "on the same page from the get-go" with their adult issues but didn't know it at the time.

IOW... when you're 18, you haven't yet had time to even form your opinions/thoughts/feelings about the majority of life's "adult issues", and therefore you're not mature enough to be entrusted with something so important as the vote.

Remember when you were a teen and thought you had it all figured out? Then as you got older you realized how little you really understood? The teen years can be tumultuous not only for teens but for their parents... but it's understandable

I agree. 18 yr olds should NOT be allowed to vote.
 
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min wage is just taking money from one pocket and putting it in the other. But raising it is a useful tool. About 5 cents every three months sounds about right.
precisely. And that is exactly what needs to be done to fix the ailing U.S. Economy. The money is in the wrong places now to work for the Economy, it has to be moved to the right places. There are those who think a rise in the minimum won't accomplish anything useful. They couldn't be more wrong. But you've got to be joking regarding the rate you've suggested. That is near the official inflation rate! We have got to do much better than that if we want to see any improvement and move away from taxpayer subsidy of corporate wages.
 
Here's another thought...

Biologist that I am... I've read that the transition from childhood to adulthood is more than just going through puberty. Neurologists have claimed the brain is undergoing maturity and changes (physical changes) in the "growing up" years, and the brain's physical transformation isn't complete until about age 25!

This partially explains why such a high percentage of marriages fail, especially among the young. Recall how divorced will often say, "we became different people... we just drifted apart"? I submit that they got married too young... because they were "in love", of course... were not "on the same page from the get-go" with their adult issues but didn't know it at the time.

IOW... when you're 18, you haven't yet had time to even form your opinions/thoughts/feelings about the majority of life's "adult issues", and therefore you're not mature enough to be entrusted with something so important as the vote.

Remember when you were a teen and thought you had it all figured out? Then as you got older you realized how little you really understood? The teen years can be tumultuous not only for teens but for their parents... but it's understandable

I agree. 18 yr olds should NOT be allowed to vote.
LOL @ the irony of seeing Mr. ON IGNORE!!! himself commenting on this piece.
 
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